All-Star 2019-2020 Teams

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I don't think it is nefarious at all? It's about playing Scoresheet Jenga like all coaches do and matching kids with team goals.

Example scenario:

Billy Bob did not tumble. Open 6 team was maxing on tumblers anyway and he bases so sure, let him be on it. Fast forward to now: Billy Bob still does not tumble. Open 6 may have a goal of pushing itself in the tumbling department this season and has enough good guy bases who also tumble. He does not fit what Open 6 needs for 19-20. But they have IOCNT6 that can use his experience and basing skills. He now goes on NT6. That is where he fills a need.

I'm sure the scenario is not unique especially with gyms adding NT who did not previously have it.

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

I don't think it is nefarious at all? It's about playing Scoresheet Jenga like all coaches do and matching kids with team goals.

Example scenario:

Billy Bob did not tumble. Open 6 team was maxing on tumblers anyway and he bases so sure, let him be on it. Fast forward to now: Billy Bob still does not tumble. Open 6 may have a goal of pushing itself in the tumbling department this season and has enough good guy bases who also tumble. He does not fit what Open 6 needs for 19-20. But they have IOCNT6 that can use his experience and basing skills. He now goes on NT6. That is where he fills a need.

Makes sense.

I just remember an episode of Cheerleaders where Eddie from Smoed said the four guys on a small coed team need to be the strongest ones possible (read: well-rounded). And I would assume, despite changes in score sheets over the years, that that dictum more or less stays true re: small coed.

Granted, Eddie does not coach Reckless but they’re both Cali/small coed teams so I figured the strategy still applied. Therefore, Bobby on Reckless was an unusual choice if you’re looking at skills alone. But I totally get the need the retain a kid that, while maybe not the most well-versed cheerleader in the world, is good at what they do and keeps morale high.

But anyway, I’m glad it was his choice. Because like I said before: I feel like his presence on a level 6 Worlds champion team was so important and I would’ve been crushed to see him removed against his will... like he was being told, “We now have a chance to remove you from this team and we’re taking it.” I’m sad to see him go, but I’m glad it was on his terms.

 

[BlueCat]

I know zero about the athlete or that specific situation, but in general, making a team is not a lifetime appointment or permanent guarantee for anyone - especially at that level.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Makes sense.

I just remember an episode of Cheerleaders where Eddie from Smoed said the four guys on a small coed team need to be the strongest ones possible (read: well-rounded). And I would assume, despite changes in score sheets over the years, that that dictum more or less stays true re: small coed.

Granted, Eddie does not coach Reckless but they’re both Cali/small coed teams so I figured the strategy still applied. Therefore, Bobby on Reckless was an unusual choice if you’re looking at skills alone. But I totally get the need the retain a kid that, while maybe not the most well-versed cheerleader in the world, is good at what they do and keeps morale high.

But anyway, I’m glad it was his choice. Because like I said before: I feel like his presence on a level 6 Worlds champion team was so important and I would’ve been crushed to see him removed against his will... like he was being told, “We now have a chance to remove you from this team and we’re taking it.” I’m sad to see him go, but I’m glad it was on his terms.

I'm sure this scenario is not unique especially with gyms adding NT who did not previously have it.

It's an opportunity for kids who were specialty contributors on other Worlds teams, contribute to multiple scoresheet areas and be an all around asset to an NT team. Bonus: Experienced kids have leadership that newer teams need.

Ex: Suzie who was on (example) Panthers to back with no tumbling for 2 years has the potential to be a great leader AND contributor on New NT6.

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

I know zero about the athlete or that specific situation, but in general, making a team is not a lifetime appointment or permanent guarantee for anyone - especially at that level.

Oh I know. Nothing is guaranteed. But it’s still sad to see faves come/go for whatever reason.

My issue was more that if they removed him from Reckless because of his lack of tumble skills — which was not an issue in the past two years — that’s what I would’ve found distasteful.

But anyway, glad to hear that’s not the case.

Does anyone know who’s coaching TNT?

 

[caffeineandglitter]

In an episode of Cheerleaders last season, Orby discussed why Bobby made team Reckless and observed that for an International Open team, tumbling is "only 5 points," suggesting he was not concerned about putting a non-tumbling athlete on the team so long as they were good at stunting.



Several athletes on Reckless did not tumble last season, and they won worlds, so that strategy worked!

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

In an episode of Cheerleaders last season, Orby discussed why Bobby made team Reckless and observed that for an International Open team, tumbling is "only 5 points," suggesting he was not concerned about putting a non-tumbling athlete on the team so long as they were good at stunting.



Several athletes on Reckless did not tumble last season, and they won worlds, so that strategy worked!

Tumbling is only worth five points in IO? Well hell, let’s all go.

 

[quitthedrama]

Tumbling is only worth five points in IO? Well hell, let’s all go.

This is true. Makes you wonder why there was even a need for a NT division....
I know several world champions who don't have level 5/6/7 tumbling yet they added immense value to the team. To me it's sad to see the dilution happening with so many added divisions.

 

[AshleyErin]

Oh I know. Nothing is guaranteed. But it’s still sad to see faves come/go for whatever reason.

My issue was more that if they removed him from Reckless because of his lack of tumble skills — which was not an issue in the past two years — that’s what I would’ve found distasteful.

But anyway, glad to hear that’s not the case.

Does anyone know who’s coaching TNT?

I don't think it is distasteful at all? You don't have the skills to make this team in this particular year, sorry.

He is an adult who probably full well knew he was on that team to fill a role that was needed those past two seasons, now that they have caught up in the stunting department they no longer need a role-filler. It's the way the world works.

I get that that is not what happened in this particular scenario, but even if it was it was just the gym trying to make a world champion team even stronger - nothing wrong with that. It's not like he would have been kicked out of the gym completely, just moved to NT where his particular skill set is best suited for.

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

This is true. Makes you wonder why there was even a need for a NT division....
I know several world champions who don't have level 5/6/7 tumbling yet they added immense value to the team. To me it's sad to see the dilution happening with so many added divisions.

I’m so conflicted about NT still. And at the risk of being roasted here:

One side of me thinks, “Tumbling is hard and unnatural, and unlike anything else in sports. We’re not talking about tossing a ball around. It’s insane what tumbling asks kids to do in terms of focus and skill. So it’s ok to give the kids who can’t/don’t tumble a break. It doesn’t mean they can’t be acknowledged as athletes in other ways.”

And then the “bootstraps” side of me thinks, “But tumbling has always been a part of cheer. And yeah it’s hard, but you know that going into it. If you don’t have the skill to get where you want to be, you’ll just have to work harder. Because the world isn’t going to cater to your shortcomings, nor should it. An NT division further dilutes our sport which has way too many divisions as it is. And to those who say, ‘What about kids who can’t tumble because of mental blocks?’ Everyone has mental blocks. Not just cheerleaders... everyone. Gymnasts, pitchers, golfers, whatever. Get over it. You’ll be fine. And you’ll thank me for this later.”

So yeah, very conflicted.

Plus like you said, lots of athletes who don’t tumble are still successful. Even though I think the ideal goal for any athlete is to be well-rounded, success is achievable without tumbling. And this applies to other sports as well: pitchers typically don’t bat. Freestylers don’t swim the butterfly leg in the medley relay. And they are still successful. So the necessity of NT is not cut and dry for me.

I see the arguments for both sides. My biggest concern is that a NT division gives kids a pass to neglect tumbling, which I have a real hard time abiding. It’s not fair to them in the long run.

 

[cheermomforever]

I’m so conflicted about NT still. And at the risk of being roasted here:

One side of me thinks, “Tumbling is hard and unnatural, and unlike anything else in sports. We’re not talking about tossing a ball around. It’s insane what tumbling asks kids to do in terms of focus and skill. So it’s ok to give the kids who can’t/don’t tumble a break. It doesn’t mean they can’t be acknowledged as athletes in other ways.”

And then the “bootstraps” side of me thinks, “But tumbling has always been a part of cheer. And yeah it’s hard, but you know that going into it. If you don’t have the skill to get where you want to be, you’ll just have to work harder. Because the world isn’t going to cater to your shortcomings, nor should it. An NT division further dilutes our sport which has way too many divisions as it is. And to those who say, ‘What about kids who can’t tumble because of mental blocks?’ Everyone has mental blocks. Not just cheerleaders... everyone. Gymnasts, pitchers, golfers, whatever. Get over it. You’ll be fine. And you’ll thank me for this later.”

So yeah, very conflicted.

Plus like you said, lots of athletes who don’t tumble are still successful. Even though I think the ideal goal for any athlete is to be well-rounded, success is achievable without tumbling. And this applies to other sports as well: pitchers typically don’t bat. Freestylers don’t swim the butterfly leg in the medley relay. And they are still successful. So the necessity of NT is not cut and dry for me.

I see the arguments for both sides. My biggest concern is that a NT division gives kids a pass to neglect tumbling because, which I have a real hard time abiding. It’s not fair to them in the long run.

for some its not neglecting tumbling, for some its injuries, age, no time to get consistent level 6/7 tumbling.....I agree there are TOO many divisions over all but for some it is NT or nothing......lets not forget more teams mean more $$ for you know who-NT has really grown this year from seeing all the posts!

 

[Keep_Believing]

In an episode of Cheerleaders last season, Orby discussed why Bobby made team Reckless and observed that for an International Open team, tumbling is "only 5 points," suggesting he was not concerned about putting a non-tumbling athlete on the team so long as they were good at stunting.



Several athletes on Reckless did not tumble last season, and they won worlds, so that strategy worked!

That is exactly what I thought of when this discussion came up.

At first I was not crazy about the NT division being at Worlds. It has grown on me. To my surprise my CP told me she’d happily be on a strong NT team to give her knees and ankles a break.

 

[XtremeWpg]

Also, consider the financial cost of elite worlds tumbling. How many privates, the gas, etc etc to get them. That alone in an already expensive sport just for the team portion can prevent some great athletes from progressing to these skills.

 

[Sterling von Shimmer]

Also, consider the financial cost of elite worlds tumbling. How many privates, the gas, etc etc to get them. That alone in an already expensive sport just for the team portion can prevent some great athletes from progressing to these skills.

It's such a crime. Cheer by nature is so expensive. You need specialized training from qualified people. Which is maybe not expensive per se, but definitely an added expense. It's quite different than buying a kid a thirty dollar basketball and telling him to go practice free throws at the public park. For free (which might be a gross generalization... but not really).

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

NT - my thoughts.

My daughter has 2 more years after this. Unless she super seniors. But as of right now, she's a level 2 tumbler. She has the knowledge and know how of level 3 and even some level 4. But she's been going through a block for several years. At first we pushed hard to get her past it (and when I say we, she was the one asking, I was the one providing the opportunities). That actually didn't help matters and in some ways made it worse. 4 years ago she said she wanted to be on a Worlds team on day. Now the reality is that most likely won't happen. Enter the NT division. If her gym were to have a NT team, I can totally see her doing that.

I saw a post on Twitter from an athlete at Cheer Central Suns who made their new NT team this season. She was so thrilled with the opportunity because like my daughter, she was never going to get the tumbling needed to get on a traditional Worlds team. Now she will get to experience it. I have a friend who's daughter is on that same team. She has higher tumbling but like some one mentioned above, it was taking a toll on her body. She is thankful to be on a Worlds team while giving her body a break from the tumbling.