All-Star Anyone Else Notice Alot Of 12 Year Old Flyers On The Floor?

[King]

It's sad to see that some people don't look at these athletes as a part of a team. SIZE? what about SKILLS? Some of these smaller younger ones are much more determined and competitive than bigger older people. Especially on a WORLDS level team it's not even only about the skills. There are not only physical but mental exercise that goes on through out the season. I think it's not about what looks good. It's about WHAT WORKS. If you were an actress, or even a dancer I can agree. But I consider CHEER as a SPORT and SPORT shouldn't have anything to do with looks. Well, I take that back, CHEER does have a lot to do with looks, but LOOKS shouldn't be the main thing. I do appreciate the coaches. It is not an easy job to put together a team where there are many many things to consider. ;)

So then why limit worlds to 12 year olds and up? We have some wonderful 9 year olds on our Youth 5 that I am sure we could do some absolutely crazy stuff with?

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

like i said, i was not bashing them, or saying they do not belong on the team, i just personally think it does not look good, like hannah said, it's a visual thing. and i do think it effects the girls who are basing the little ones too. if you watch real closely to some of the teams that put up those babies, there is no technique.... often times you'll watch the backspot gripping for dear life to the flyers knee, literally, holding her up there, as the flyer is like on a slant in the air., and god only knows what those bases are doing underneath her. but you know what, she's staying up there, so that's all that counts right? wrong. it looks bad, and it looks sloppy. i'm not saying every team with fetuses.... feti? are guilty of it either, i'm just saying i see alot of it across the board. i feel like teams are compensating in order to hit the difficulty on score sheets....
i do agree that seniors should be 14-18. most of the time (i said most) athletes that age have grown out of little girl syndrome, plus the maturity difference is astounding (again, most of the time). i'm not saying those little girls don't deserve to be on a worlds team or anything of the sort. i adore them and their talent. i'm just stating how i feel about senior teams using those little girls.
as for the whole college thing.... it does hurt colleges. and i know personally, my team HATES allstars. which is funny. because i'm pretty sure if i was never an allstar, i wouldn't be on that team right now.... I'm going to say it, and some people are going to hate me for it, but it's my opinion. when you compare a college cheerleader that was an allstar with one that cheered high school, 9 times out of 10, that allstar is going to be better and more well rounded. so honestly, colleges should care about allstars, because it really is the source of its incoming talent. are there talented highschool cheerleaders out there? of course, some who are better than allstars. but most scenarios i've seen, high school cheerleaders that are good doubled up as an allstar. again, ALLL PERSONAL OPINION AND EXPERIENCES.
rainbows and butterflies :) just stating opinions, not looking to get a rise out of anyone.
peace and happy cheering!

 

[Ashley]

It's sad to see that some people don't look at these athletes as a part of a team. SIZE? what about SKILLS? Some of these smaller younger ones are much more determined and competitive than bigger older people. Especially on a WORLDS level team it's not even only about the skills. There are not only physical but mental exercise that goes on through out the season. I think it's not about what looks good. It's about WHAT WORKS. If you were an actress, or even a dancer I can agree. But I consider CHEER as a SPORT and SPORT shouldn't have anything to do with looks. Well, I take that back, CHEER does have a lot to do with looks, but LOOKS shouldn't be the main thing. I do appreciate the coaches. It is not an easy job to put together a team where there are many many things to consider. ;)

But we're not talking about using smaller girls in the same age group as flyers. Obviously a small 17 year old will be a flyer. The issue is when it becomes a habit, or even a necessity to pull up 12 year olds onto the senior team because they're small. And not because they're small for a 12 year old, but because 12 year olds are obviously smaller than 17 year olds. This goes beyond looks and whether or not a bigger flyer looks better in the air - as has already been mentioned, that's not a factor on the scoresheet. It's the precedent it sets when teams start pulling really young girls up to the senior year just to fly. Because you know not too many of those teams are pulling up 12 year old bases.

Now, if we really want to talk about how looks shouldn't matter, and they can't help it because they're small, let's talk about the college teams that have itty bitty flyers. These girls are the same age as their mid-level/tumbling counterparts. I'm looking at you SFA. Everyone of their flyers is like 4'10" and 80 lbs.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

So then why limit worlds to 12 year olds and up? We have some wonderful 9 year olds on our Youth 5 that I am sure we could do some absolutely crazy stuff with?

see to me, that's part of the joy behind worlds... part of what SHOULD make it so prestigious. you have to work to get there. you have to wait to get there. it gives those young girls something to look foward to, and something to keep them going.
again, my personal opinion.

 

[Ashley]

as for the whole college thing.... it does hurt colleges. and i know personally, my team HATES allstars. which is funny. because i'm pretty sure if i was never an allstar, i wouldn't be on that team right now.... I'm going to say it, and some people are going to hate me for it, but it's my opinion. when you compare a college cheerleader that was an allstar with one that cheered high school, 9 times out of 10, that allstar is going to be better and more well rounded. so honestly, colleges should care about allstars, because it really is the source of its incoming talent. are there talented highschool cheerleaders out there? of course, some who are better than allstars. but most scenarios i've seen, high school cheerleaders that are good doubled up as an allstar.

College teams that hate all-star cheerleaders hate them, not because they're not skilled, but because they don't know how to cheer. Like at games. And because they sometimes go in with the attitude that they were on an awesome level 5 team and thus they know everything there is to know about cheerleading and don't want to be taught to do something differently.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

College teams that hate all-star cheerleaders hate them, not because they're not skilled, but because they don't know how to cheer. Like at games. And because they sometimes go in with the attitude that they were on an awesome level 5 team and thus they know everything there is to know about cheerleading and don't want to be taught to do something differently.

that's not always true. my team hates allstars because it's a different style... cough cough most allstars would do better at NCA schools. being an allstar has actually helped me more than anything. again, all personal experience. but i feel like most colleges give allstars a bad name and are quick to judge before they really even know the talents of an individual athletes. stereotyping them as "an allstar" is going to lose them athletes. no one wants to be judged or punished for where they came from. Been there done that... and no, i'm not talking about the school i'm at now. although they like to hate on allstars, they love me, even if i used to shimmy and hair flip.

 

[King]

College teams that hate all-star cheerleaders hate them, not because they're not skilled, but because they don't know how to cheer. Like at games. And because they sometimes go in with the attitude that they were on an awesome level 5 team and thus they know everything there is to know about cheerleading and don't want to be taught to do something differently.

so that is the reason there pretty much is no communication, recruiting, anything between colleges and allstar?

 

[King]

that's not always true. my team hates allstars because it's a different style... cough cough most allstars would do better at NCA schools. being an allstar has actually helped me more than anything. again, all personal experience. but i feel like most colleges give allstars a bad name and are quick to judge before they really even know the talents of an individual athletes. stereotyping them as "an allstar" is going to lose them athletes. no one wants to be judged or punished for where they came from. Been there done that... and no, i'm not talking about the school i'm at now. although they like to hate on allstars, they love me, even if i used to shimmy and hair flip.

allstar has matured a lot faster and is a lot more established now that college cheer. Why? we compete a heck of a lot more. the sport has evolved faster, uses more people, and most of the new ideas now come from allstar.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

allstar has matured a lot faster and is a lot more established now that college cheer. Why? we compete a heck of a lot more. the sport has evolved faster, uses more people, and most of the new ideas now come from allstar.

sooo really, colleges should be thanking allstars, not hating on them.
at least i think that's what you're saying haha

 

[King]

sooo really, colleges should be thanking allstars, not hating on them.
at least i think that's what you're saying haha

yes. by a lot. college used to be the creme de la creme of cheerleading. not so much anymore. it's not that colleges do not have talented athletes and some amazing teams, it is that the college world is stagnant. minor progressions and changes have happened. while the skills have gotten harder in the past few years, their overall cheerleading and sport looks the exact same. allstar has progressed a lot faster and sped everything up. safety is better, tumbling is better, everything is more practiced and now there are places for all types of athletes to compete.

the way cheer 'should' work is a lot like other youth sports. it should build kids up and feed them into college based teams and cheer like a funnel. instead the college world is stuck in about 1999.

 

[Ashley]

that's not always true. my team hates allstars because it's a different style... cough cough most allstars would do better at NCA schools. being an allstar has actually helped me more than anything. again, all personal experience. but i feel like most colleges give allstars a bad name and are quick to judge before they really even know the talents of an individual athletes. stereotyping them as "an allstar" is going to lose them athletes. no one wants to be judged or punished for where they came from. Been there done that... and no, i'm not talking about the school i'm at now. although they like to hate on allstars, they love me, even if i used to shimmy and hair flip.

Of course it's a generalization, and it's not fair. I was just talking about my own experience at an NCA college with a few of our cheerleaders who came from level 5 teams and didn't want to be coached.

I wasn't thinking UCA though, which, absolutely, is a different style.

 

[cheerKT]

NOTHING is worse than little girl syndrome. Where a teeny tiny flyer does not lock out and flails her body everywhere and shows no control because she's small and knows her bases will hold her up. I even struggled with it with a senior on the high school team I coach. And then the problem arises where you can really take them out of the air, because they are too small to base. But sometimes it seems like the smallest girls in the air are the least tight.

It an issue I think with allstar cheer. Some of these girls are super talented and hold their own on a senior team, they just happen to be small. Many gyms don't have junior 5s to place them on, so they move up to seniors.

I agree with it being easy. I was always a strong backspot, so my coaches would usually put me with a bigger or newer flyer. Some of the less talented bases got put under the little girls. Why? Because it's not hard to keep them in the air. Girls would be thrilled when they got assigned to a "fetus" group because they knew it was less work for them.

 

[Ashley]

so that is the reason there pretty much is no communication, recruiting, anything between colleges and allstar?

I was making a stupid generalization about (mis-guided) college attitudes towards all-stars. I think they do look at all-stars in disdain, possible because they don't cheer. You probably know a lot more about college cheerleading than I do, but I could see it being a reason.

But I also think that a lot of all-star cheerleaders look down on college cheerleading as well. Maybe not at the elite schools, but I think it's there at a lot of the other ones.

 

[King]

NOTHING is worse than little girl syndrome. Where a teeny tiny flyer does not lock out and flails her body everywhere and shows no control because she's small and knows her bases will hold her up. I even struggled with it with a senior on the high school team I coach. And then the problem arises where you can really take them out of the air, because they are too small to base. But sometimes it seems like the smallest girls in the air are the least tight.

It an issue I think with allstar cheer. Some of these girls are super talented and hold their own on a senior team, they just happen to be small. Many gyms don't have junior 5s to place them on, so they move up to seniors.

I agree with it being easy. I was always a strong backspot, so my coaches would usually put me with a bigger or newer flyer. Some of the less talented bases got put under the little girls. Why? Because it's not hard to keep them in the air. Girls would be thrilled when they got assigned to a "fetus" group because they knew it was less work for them.

It is kinda simple. The smaller the flyer the easier the stunt. Because 12 is prepubescent for most girls and they can be teeny and thrown around easily, why wouldn't teams start using them.

I think limiting Worlds to 14-18 year olds would be be like limiting the Olympic gymnasts to 16 and up. Smart.

 

[King]

I was making a stupid generalization about (mis-guided) college attitudes towards all-stars. I think they do look at all-stars in disdain, possible because they don't cheer. You probably know a lot more about college cheerleading than I do, but I could see it being a reason.

But I also think that a lot of all-star cheerleaders look down on college cheerleading as well. Maybe not at the elite schools, but I think it's there at a lot of the other ones.

the fact of the matter is college needs allstar MORE than allstar needs college. college cheer, as I have said many times, is dying. it is not overall healthy. the fact that open teams are starting to spring up everywhere is a sign that it is filling a need that colleges cant. do i think colleges will do what is necessary to fix what needs to be fixed? no. too proud. a few will (GT, OSU, HPU) but most are too above allstar.

can you imagine a college football coach looking 'down' on high school football? so much he wouldnt go out to recruit the best players? how long would they last as a major university college coach?