All-Star Cea Chicago

[quitthedrama]

When CP first started this sport she was with a program that was built for military kids by two military wives. Without notice, because that's the military for you, we lost one coach and lost the other a month later. Both were supposed to be there for several more years. Should they be punished because of their husband's jobs?

USAG doesn't have this same standard; coaching leaving/being fired and going elsewhere, why should USASF? This will sound weird coming from me because I am a registered Democrat, but I'm not in favor of a large governing body and this would make USASF bigger than it already should be.

USAG also has no stipulations (i.e. release requirements) on athletes leaving for another gym. Gabrielle Douglas could have trained with the same coach her entire life and left the week before Olympic Trials to train elsewhere.

 

[SL&AM]

Should we be punished as consumers? What I proposed doesn't punish anyone. The coaches are free to leave, however, they wouldn't be able to coach NEW teams mid season, they would be able to coach teams in existence or classes until the season ends. I personally don't care if one is a Democrat or Republican, I feel as consumers we should be able to finish out a season that we paid for.

Who is to say the athletes who didn't leave; if this thread is to be believed that would mean 3 total, won't be found new teams within the existing company?

I get the huge focus on her not being able to leave to make new teams mid-season, but I just don't agree with that. That isn't how capitalism works. And if athletes can leave mid-season and go to another gym, coaches should have the same luxury.

 

[quitthedrama]

Should we be punished as consumers? What I proposed doesn't punish anyone. The coaches are free to leave, however, they wouldn't be able to coach NEW teams mid season, they would be able to coach teams in existence or classes until the season ends. I personally don't care if one is a Democrat or Republican, I feel as consumers we should be able to finish out a season that we paid for.

If I came to a gym because I wanted my child to be coached by a particular coach and said coach got fired during the season, then as a consumer I am being punished if I can't take my CP to where that coach goes. If the team my CP was on was disbanded because the coach of that team was fired and the gym chose to place the athletes on other teams instead of finding a new coach, then I am being punished.
Bottom line is there is always someone who is going to be hurt by drastic changes mid-season. Creating rules won't help make fair for everyone.

 

[desperatelyseekinggyms]

Former Indiana ICE parent here. Our gym was closed last year. We were small but successful. We were told it was a business decision. Being an adult with a career of my own I get it. But it didn't feel that way to us. We were family. I know this coach. I know this owner. I know this organization. I believe what comes around goes around. I wish all involved good luck. This situation definitely stinks. It seems as though another business decision was made.

 

[Tator tots]

In this situation, this is obviously a much loved and good coach in the opinion of many. A business that wants a fabulous coach, I assure you, would be willing to allow them to coach existing teams and other classes until the season is over. Everyone else is protected in the process, as well.

That may be true for this situation, but the original statement was "All USASF coaches...." which lead me to believe you think this is a good idea for ALL gyms to be forced to abide by.

 

[Cheermom1969]

I don't understand. If I want to open my own business/company but am working for someone else, I should quit my job since I don't own it before I look to open my own business?

She has every right to want to run/open her own gym. The owner where she was employed, has every right to fire her. But I find it hard to grasp that you shouldn't be thinking/planning your future or making your dream a reality while employed elsewhere.

This situation is exactly why there are no-compete clauses in hiring contracts. And if it's true that other coaches signed one and this coach didn't or wouldn't, that's a hard lesson for the Ice owner to learn.


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[Tator tots]

Should we be punished as consumers? What I proposed doesn't punish anyone. The coaches are free to leave, however, they wouldn't be able to coach NEW teams mid season, they would be able to coach teams in existence or classes until the season ends. I personally don't care if one is a Democrat or Republican, I feel as consumers we should be able to finish out a season that we paid for.

The coaches aren't "free". They are gone with conditions from a job they no longer have. Thats ridiculous.

 

[catlady]

Who is to say the athletes who didn't leave; if this thread is to be believed that would mean 3 total, won't be found new teams within the existing company?

I get the huge focus on her not being able to leave to make new teams mid-season, but I just don't agree with that. That isn't how capitalism works. And if athletes can leave mid-season and go to another gym, coaches should have the same luxury.

If I came to a gym because I wanted my child to be coached by a particular coach and said coach got fired during the season, then as a consumer I am being punished if I can't take my CP to where that coach goes. If the team my CP was on was disbanded because the coach of that team was fired and the gym chose to place the athletes on other teams instead of finding a new coach, then I am being punished.
Bottom line is there is always someone who is going to be hurt by drastic changes mid-season. Creating rules won't help make fair for everyone.

Coaches would have the same luxury, and they could leave any time they wanted to, they just wouldn't be able to dismantle a team mid season and cause lost payments for consumers. You would have the option of following the coach and seeing if they have any spots on existing teams but, they would not be able to cause parents to lose their investment on uniforms, plane tickets, comp fees, etc. by a mass exodus to create a new team at another gym. This isn't about loyalty or commitment IMO, this is about a consumer starting a season, paying in advance for many services and having some type of protection. The employee is protected by being free to go elsewhere at any time but, not being able to start new teams mid season. I think that's reasonable.

 

[Cheermom1969]

As of now, the permanent location for CEA has not been announced. As I understand it they are looking for a place central to the Western suburbs, and affordable. Temporarily they are using space at another gym. Not to stick it to Ice, but because that is what is available to them with not time to plan.

I thought this was in the works since the summer? Couldn't they have found a place further away? And not use the same team name? I mean, that just blows my mind that they're using the same team name and the same team Twitter account.


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[SL&AM]

Coaches would have the same luxury, and they could leave any time they wanted to, they just wouldn't be able to dismantle a team mid season and cause lost payments for consumers. You would have the option of following the coach and seeing if they have any spots on existing teams but, they would not be able to cause parents to lose their investment on uniforms, plane tickets, comp fees, etc. by a mass exodus to create a new team at another gym. This isn't about loyalty or commitment IMO, this is about a consumer starting a season, paying in advance for many services and having some type of protection. The employee is protected by being free to go elsewhere at any time but, not being able to start new teams mid season. I think that's reasonable.

Then wouldn't this be better aimed at the gym's management? All of this would have had happened had Darlene not fired her; Darlene set this into motion, not really the coach who is simply making a living.

 

[catlady]

The coaches aren't "free". They are gone with conditions from a job they no longer have. Thats ridiculous.

So, as a paying consumer, it isn't ridiculous to have invested $4,000 plus for a team that no longer exists at your gym?

 

[Tator tots]

So, as a paying consumer, it isn't ridiculous to have invested $4,000 plus for a team that no longer exists at your gym?

Yep, but thats a risk you take. I don't like the idea AT ALL of giving so much power to gym owners under the guise of "protecting the consumer".

Trying to regulate every possible outcome or scenario is ridiculous.

 

[catlady]

Then wouldn't this be better aimed at the gym's management? All of this would have had happened had Darlene not fired her; Darlene set this into motion, not really the coach who is simply making a living.

I'm not looking at this particular situation and I'm not going to get into who's right and wrong because, I don't think any of us truly know. I am, however, looking at this from the potential of a similar situation happening to me as a consumer. The problem I see, is that I'm not protected from loss. We can debate what should have happened in this situation until the cows come home but, I would like to see something implemented in the future so, we aren't left with uniforms, comp fees, and plane tickets that can't be used.

Yep, but thats a risk you take. I don't like the idea AT ALL of giving so much power to gym owners under the guise of "protecting the consumer". Trying to regulate every possible outcome or scenario is ridiculous.

When it's your $4,000 plus dollars we will talk.:deathdrop:

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

What struck me about your initial position is that we've both been in a similar boat around the same age. However, once you actually wrote out what you experienced and went through I realized our situations were not even remotely the same. In my scenario, my mental health suffered and why I feel looking back I shouldn't have stayed as long as I did. What I found to be an oxymoron though was your claim that pushing through your misery is somehow supposed to teacher greater life lessons that help with adult disappointment. That is where I took my pause, and you're right my comment was an attack and even though I don't mean it maliciously, I can understand why it might hurt your feelings. I'm sorry for that, I am, what I'm not sorry for is calling out that your situation---as you presented it---should never be okay for anyone to sit on the sidelines and ignore as if it's okay.

In life we stress to our youth that you don't have to be the person committing the crime or being the bully to be at fault for standing on the sidelines and doing nothing about it. In adulthood, we actually criminalize some behaviors simply because a person willingly stood to the side as an accomplice to criminal activity. In the situation, as you presented it, I do see that correlation and I won't apologize for it.

I'm about to get defensive. And it's long so if you want to keep reading about ICE/CEA skip this post.

Never once did I say that I thought pushing through misery is the greater teacher. I said it taught me great life lessons and provided me with mental strength - coping mechanisms and ways to sit back and reflect on things that happened to move me forward. And never once will I ever compare someone's mental health story with someone else's because they are both valid and both important. I was just saying that sometimes its good to push through the disappointment.

Let me also say that no one in my family "stood on the sidelines" while I was at that gym. Maybe I'm presenting it like it was awful but you are assuming a lot about my situation.

Not that it's really your personal business, though I know I wrote that stuff on a public forum so I guess it's fair game to anyone,but there are really two things you should keep in mind before you decide to stick with your opinion about me and my family.

1. I was in that gym for 8 years and the second to last year is when things really started to going down hill. My last year there, promises were made by the staff that things would get better from the previous year, they didn't. I decided that year was going to be my last and that I would finish it out no matter what - for my friends. My gym had a very large percentage of fairly underprivileged kids who really didn't have a great home life, who lived in the inner city or the outskirts where money is tight, there were foster kids who were beat down by the system and saw hard times, lots of kids with emotional and behavioral issues, etc. About 3/4 of the program was that. My parents were actually coaches my first 6 years there when things were ok. They both quit their last seasons after being treated poorly because they tried to fix what was happening - the behavior issues, the money issues, the security - and they were met with complete disrespect by the owner day in and day out. My parents were so committed to this gym, you have no idea. They bought the gym it's gymnastic mats because the gym literally had no tumbling mats. My dad built stunt stands for flyers, those boxes you jump up on like you see in crossfit, training tools for bases. He worked with our tumbling coach to get conditioning stations in place and then built all the equipment we needed for them because our gym couldn't afford to buy any. My parents got certified up to level 4 even though our gym only went up to level 3. They got their judges certification so they could be better coaches for these kids. They did this for free. All of the equipment my dad built he did it out of his own pocket. My parents are not that well off either. They tried to change it and fix it, they did not stand on the sidelines but you can only take so much until it beats you down. They finished their seasons and then resigned. The last two years they weren't coaching, they were still involved with the gym. They would drive kids too and from practices, they would buy kids food if their parents didn't send them with food, always on the buses, always team chaperones, always there for the kids. At the same time, they were there with me, so I always felt safe even if something was happening. They tried their best and the gym eventually crumbled, then merged, then crumbled again, and was eventually bought out. But they were there the entire time I was there. Not on the sidelines. Caring about some of these kids' cheer lives more than their own parents did. For you to assume they did nothing and are guilty of whatever you think they're guilty for is really hurtful to me. My parent's sacrificed so much for other people's kids. To me, that's the real Suzie's Mom and Suzie's Dad. (For those of you not up to speed, hi, my name is Suzie.) It's not their fault that kids (and adults) misbehaved. It broke their hearts to have to quit coaching because they loved it and loved the hard-to-love kids on my team. They left the cheer world when I switched gyms. I made the absolute most of my last two years of eligibility at Gym B. I loved it and I worked hard at it and for it.


2. Cheering at the only other gym in the area that was worth going to wasn't an option until I was 16 and could fundraise the $$ to cheer myself, which I did. I fundraised it all. My area is not like many other areas of the country where you have multiple gyms to choose from. Even now, I think Syracuse only has 2 gyms. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) And if you're a very strong level 5 athlete and want a good Worlds contender team, then you drive out of state - MA of NJ or just leave home and live with someone else. So you can't just "find another gym." Sometimes it's a matter of you cheer or you don't cheer. Maybe you wouldn't let your kid cheer at all if you couldn't afford Gym B and you won't enroll your child in Gym A, that's your prerogative. But to criminalize people who want to cheer so bad and can only afford Gym A and will put up with the stuff that happens there just so they can cheer isn't right IMO. We don't have options.

Yes, looking back there are moments that stick out that I say "why was I still there at that point" or "how did my parents trust me enough to be in that situation". But if I was in any real, immediate danger my parents would've pulled me. If they weren't constantly in the gym and knew all the kids and parents themselves, I definitely wouldn't have cheered at all. They were more committed to my cheer than a lot of parents are to any of their children's activities. And they were more committed to my team mate's cheer than their own parents.

You don't have to apologize if you still feel that my parents and I are awful people for some reason or another but at least get your facts straight first.

 

[SL&AM]

I'm not looking at this particular situation and I'm not going to get into who's right and wrong because, I don't think any of us truly know. I am, however, looking at this from the potential of a similar situation happening to me as a consumer. The problem I see, is that I'm not protected from loss. We can debate what should have happened in this situation until the cows come home but, I would like to see something implemented in the future so, we aren't left with uniforms, comp fees, and plane tickets that can't be used.



When it's your $4,000 plus dollars we will talk.:deathdrop:

I don't think a USASF rule will give you anymore protecting because let's be real---how many rules are constantly violated anyway? However, what do you think about contracts stating that in situations such as these, the gyms refund the consumer?