All-Star Cheer Extreme Questions And Answers From Courtney

[xtremeteal4life]

First, I'd like to clarify my post for all of the posters who have been so kind as to make presumptions on my behalf...

It takes a lot to personally offend me (and I mean a lot)..However, there are only a few things that I vehemently adhere to/believe in...sticking up for my friends, for people who have no voice (i.e. the handicapped) and/or people who are bullied for any reason. In addition, I cannot stand ignorance in any form whether it be intolerance, hatred, and/or bigotry in any form (color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.). I personally believe that presumption is often a diving board for ignorance. I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is why I like to ask questions before jumping to conclusions.

Notice that when I said my piece to McLovin based on her repetitive questions I felt were repeatedly answered...(as did the people who answered her) in addition to my comment(s) that I felt like she was coming across as bitter (an opinion I'm entitled to correct? or is that reserved for people who spout out inaccurate information as opposed to opinions...but I digress), I addressed them under the first post I quoted of hers...the rest of her replies I quoted underneath, as I felt they were they were representative of the repetitive and/or inaccurate info she repeatedly posted.

THEN, before I hit reply (as it was 6 in the morning and I had yet to go to sleep..as evidenced in my grammatical error, which I intended to say "Isn't T&S the openly Christian gym?!"), I seemed to remember a very distinct conversation in a thread a while back titled "Religion in the gym" (which I just now looked up as I logged on and saw all of these lovely posts, just to make sure I wasn't losing my mind) and I could have sworn I thought McLovin said she went to T&S, which she said was an OPENLY Christian gym and it stuck out in my head bc I remember someone saying if you go to an openly Christian gym like T&S, it is only reasonable to expect things like prayer as a part of practices, etc.

I am curious....would people feel differently about prayer at practice if the gym clearly stated in their mission statement that they were teaching athletes in a Christian environment?

(to which I agreed).

I think it would be clearly obvious to anyone who joins and I would expect it (prayer, etc) and take that into consideration. It's nice to know that kind of stuff before hand

So when I posted that question, it was initially merely in a "Hey, isn't T&S that openly Christian gym referenced in the 'religion in the gym' thread?!!" kinda way; not the "How dare you think that just bc I'm a Christian I'm not allowed to have a differing opinion way", as so many others seem to think. I will admit once I recalled that info, I was definitely kind of surprised about the comments I read (in which McLovin acknowledged the incident and that it occurred before her time there, and said she did not agree with) that came from members of that particular gym (T&S); bc McLovin said she chose that gym mostly bc of it's Christian affiliation over other larger gyms

Twist & Shout is most definitely an openly christian organization. You can't walk into our building and not know that. There are scriptures painted on the walls. The fact that it is a christian owned and operated gym was 75% of the reason we chose to move to OK over other larger gyms we had looked into. Looking back, I am 1000% sure we chose the right gym for our family. :)

and I definitely got the impression in the religion thread as well as this one, that she felt the gym to be of strong moral conviction. But mostly after that thought occurred to me, I wondered if maybe that was one of the reasons as to the extreme differences in our pov's. Since I am NOT that presumptuous and ready to yell at people without merit *cough cough*, I ASKED instead..awaiting her actual answer before proceeding to ask my next question. Plain and simple. The rest of you guys (and ironically not McLovin) are the ones who jumped the guns, shoved words in my mouth, made presumptions (in retrospect only one of which I was really surprised to see), yelled at me, threatened me, etc.

Now to address the two of you; Cheerinfo and Level5mom bc you made it your business to overreact

Just because I have an opinion on a matter makes me impartial as a moderator?? And I didn't mean "monitor" as a moderator, I meant monitoring as a poster...i held off posting anything until McLovin's Christianity was brought into a CHEERLEADING discussion..really??
HOWEVER, my post was more in response to the RUDENESS in which McLovin was spoken to in one post.
Anyhoo...carry on...just don't think questioning someone's religion over cheerleading is appropriate or necessary.

Wait, so let me get this straight. Are you saying that it's ok for YOU and anyone else to have an opinion and make untrue comments about a person, team, or program (like calling their character and ethics into question for one) that can be construed by some posters to be rude, but it's not ok for ME to have an opinion on a matter just bc I asked a question about religion; which might I add, was not initially brought up by me on this board (this thread yes, this board, no)? Considering McLovin had no problem discussing it in a thread relating to religion in cheerleading, I did not think it was an issue. It most certainly was however, very rude of YOU to assume that bc I asked a question from someone who has had no problems discussing religion and cheerleading in this forum very openly and with conviction, that it wasn't appropriate or necessary. Half of the things said in this thread could be considered inappropriate and/or necessary to me, but as everyone keeps reiterating..we all have the right to our own opinions, beliefs, etc. and the right to state them even if someone doesn't happen to agree with them (and that's fine by me...I just find it incredibly presumptuous on everyone's part who jumped the gun on this one). In fact, per the previous convo that sparked my memory about the gym in the first place, you can clearly see that McLovin had no problem stating her beliefs (regarding religion AND cheerleading) if you read that entire thread.

xtremeteal4life - Your post is VERY rude. I have read this whole thread and have been "monitoring" it so to speak. I too recall more than one year when CEA did this with their jr 5 teams (super team for dallas). I will not state exact years, but I will say that it went back to well before 2010. And the facts came from people AT CEA with kids ON those teams. Regardless of what my stance is on excessive crossovers, it's legal. That being said, now that a spade is being called a spade, there is back pedaling and "covering up" and all. McLovin is NOT a drama queen and IS a Christian and your post is both rude and uncalled for. JMO, but this is an issue worth discussing. Why people are not proud of their gym and their gym's policies now that they are being questioned point blank is beyond me. It is out in the open, it is known to have occurred more than once...and that's FINE. It's LEGAL. Why all the defensiveness and everyone getting their hackles up from CEA now? Your post seemed over the top for me, hence my finally posting on this thread. If Courtney is going to put a thread like this out there, you can't expect people not to ask. Excessive crossovers and "tryouts" for certain teams at different times of the year are known occurrences at CEA...so why is everyone now trying to say it never happened?? McLovin is just trying to get to the bottom of it, for whatever reason. To call out her Christianity is ludicrous and RUDE.

Sorry if this rambled...i was floored by the post though.

As is yours for reasons I've already stated. Exactly!! So why is it a problem to ask if a poster's gym is the one I thought I recalled being an OPENLY Christian gym, especially considering that she has no problem discussing it in this public forum (nor do I, either way)?! I think by my responses in that particular thread it's obvious I had no agenda. I always stand up for my friends to answer your second question; I have an extreme affinity for MsTealtoYou (and StarshipTrooper) and I feel like MsTealtoYou could not have been more clear. I'm kinda shocked that many of the people attacking me for one question at the end of my post without asking for clarification (and actually went so far as to yell at me and threaten me), felt they needed excess clarification from MsTealtoYou, despite her clear and concise efforts. That is all...very simple. I did not "call out" her Christianity and while I should be floored by your post, I'm not.. bc unfortunately the minute someone sees the word Christianity (or even religion) they go berserk w/o even so much as an aforethought...so I feel that speaks more to those individuals (just to be clear, not Christians or any other religiously affiliated persons..just the ones that go berserk w/o aforethought). I won't comment on the non-bolded parts as I feel they've already been addressed more accurately by others at CEA who actually know the facts, as they have been around longer than I.

xtremeteal4life yes it is. What does the faith of the gym or any member have anything to do with her question of whether or not there was a try-out? Be VERY VERY careful how you answer.

Isn't T&S openly Christian gym?!!

[/quote]

See my other replies. Unlike you however, I did not make a threatening comment towards anyone to be "VERY VERY careful how they answer". Even if I had made the comment w/ill intent, who are you to speak to someone this way?? I could easily tell you that your comment made me feel threatened and that I'm shocked another well known/classy poster such as yourself would go to such extremes without a second thought; but I won't bc I'd rather you actually ask me what I meant rather than assuming..and hope you will afford me the same respect if there is a next time.

*edit...Although now as I'm looking back on that thread (about religion and the gym), I'm guessing it doesn't go both ways with you based upon a couple of your posts. I guess it's ok for you make these kinds of statements about non-christians, but I get the level of hatred from your post for asking a question?

This whole thread just makes me sick to my stomach. That's all.

I'm a Christian and it just disappoints me. I just won't open the thread anymore. Carry on....

 

[xtremeteal4life]

So now it's 10am and once again sleep eludes me...so if I've made any mistakes and/or grammatical errors that might be misconstrued, please ASK me for clarification. Sorry to hijack the thread...but didn't realize I had caused such a conundrum and wanted to be clear as possible, to avoid confusion and allow the thread to continue progression w/o the excess nonsense I did not intend.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I think though people have been complaining about changing the game but it gets them nowhere because of the $$$ made off it. We have been seeking the USASF it seems like forever about the crossover issue. Still nothing. Very few Ep's will touch it as well because of the $$$. To me a state, regional or national championship means nothing if every division and age is "crossover" with higher level athletes doing lower level skills. Best Level 5 doing a Level 1 pyramid award goes to....Best Level 5 doing a Level 2 Stunt sequence......Arrghh!!!

It seems to me that if they wont change the game, the only way to then change it is to start another organization where they will enforce it.

You should come to one of our X-evolution events! I think you'd like it :)

 

[mstealtoyou]

Thank you C. I thought I was quite clear as well. Apparently not.

And, wow did I pick the wrong day to babysit without computer access. LMAO

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Thank you C. I thought I was quite clear as well. Apparently not.

And, wow did I pick the wrong day to babysit without computer access. LMAO

BAHAHAHA....but it was for a much better reason tbh ;)
And I picked the wrong night to decide not to go to bed like normal humans...or is it the wrong morning?

 

[Level5Mom]

Xtremeteal4life when I read your response to her I took it as you saying that she should not be questioning the issue because she was Christian....as if Christians shouldn't do that.

 

[scottish_cheerleader]

slightly off topic but a qn for any CEA... i have heard lots of rumours and Bluecat has explained their pov with regards to the major winners travelling to england, but what is the situation with coed elite? will we be seeing you in june???

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Xtremeteal4life when I read your response to her I took it as you saying that she should not be questioning the issue because she was Christian....as if Christians shouldn't do that.

I definitely understood that was the case..it's just one of those issues where I wish people would ask instead of assume. I understand if people don't agree with my opinions or statements towards another poster, but look at what the mob mentality does (or at least did) to me regarding that single question within less than 24 hours..when a simple question (even if worded indignantly) would have cleared up the subject in a lot less time and probably undue stress/being upset, etc. on the people who thought I meant something else.

Trust me, I think it's safe to say if I meant it in a particular way I would not have shied away from voicing my true opinion..but if you actually read that religion thread you'll see most of it went very civil and even though I may have different views, I fully supported anyone's beliefs regardless if they were my own or not..and went so far as to tell lakermom that I respected her for standing up for what she believed in both politically and religiously, even though I completely disagreed (and she understood).

 

[Level5Mom]

I definitely understood that was the case..it's just one of those issues where I wish people would ask instead of assume. I understand if people don't agree with my opinions or statements towards another poster, but look at what the mob mentality does (or at least did) to me regarding that single question within less than 24 hours..when a simple question (even if worded indignantly) would have cleared up the subject in a lot less time and probably undue stress/being upset, etc. on the people who thought I meant something else.

Trust me, I think it's safe to say if I meant it in a particular way I would not have shied away from voicing my true opinion..but if you actually read that religion thread you'll see most of it went very civil and even though I may have different views, I fully supported anyone's beliefs regardless if they were my own or not..and went so far as to tell lakermom that I respected her for standing up for what she believed in both politically and religiously, even though I completely disagreed (and she understood).

So you only said that because you wanted to double check that she was with an openly Christian gym? Seems like kind of a random time to bring that up....

 

[Ally13]

What was the story or thought process in coming up with having Celine sing the music for Senior Elite? Who came up with the idea and how long did it take to get done?

 

[shadow]

slightly off topic but a qn for any CEA... i have heard lots of rumours and Bluecat has explained their pov with regards to the major winners travelling to england, but what is the situation with coed elite? will we be seeing you in june???

Hope they get to go.

 

[Mclovin]

Ms

Thank you C. I thought I was quite clear as well. Apparently not.

And, wow did I pick the wrong day to babysit without computer access. LMAO

I think I made it quite clear why I asked that question again and again and again and you yourself even admitted that there was a "reevaluation". I wanted the truth. And as it turns out the truth was told. That truth being there was a "reevaluation" leading up to Dallas to make sure the best 36 kids were on the floor. Seeing that it was perfectly legal I'm not sure why that couldn't have been said from the get go. Just because 34 of the original kids got to keep their spots does not mean anything except they were good enough to keep their spots. That "reevaluation" could have ended with a much different result. So I guess I'm still confused as to how I'm the bad guy here for continuing to ask the question until I got a straight answer. And just please remember that I asked ceacoach the question. You didn't have to answer it. I have always respected you on these boards and would never intend on upsetting you. But as stated earlier, this was a very important question for me personally. I wanted a truthful answer which I didn't believe I was getting. Thus the reason for asking over and over. Eventually through all of my repetitive asking, I got the truth.

 

[Mclovin]

Xtremeteal4life -- I'm still confused as to why you asked if T&S was a Christian gym in the same post that you reamed me out for apparently being blatantly disrespectful to your CEA friends on this thread?? How did that even come up if it wasn't to call into question my faith or the faith of my gym? So just as you came to the defense of your friends when you felt they were being attacked, my friends came to my defense when u attacked me. Which I appreciated just as I'm sure your friends appreciated your defense of them. In the end this is a thread that was opened by ceacoach for questions to and answers by her. If everyone else just let her answer 99% of all of this drama would be nipped in the bud. JMO

 

[quitthedrama]

First, I'd like to clarify my post for all of the posters who have been so kind as to make presumptions on my behalf...

It takes a lot to personally offend me (and I mean a lot)..However, there are only a few things that I vehemently adhere to/believe in...sticking up for my friends, for people who have no voice (i.e. the handicapped) and/or people who are bullied for any reason. In addition, I cannot stand ignorance in any form whether it be intolerance, hatred, and/or bigotry in any form (color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.). I personally believe that presumption is often a diving board for ignorance. I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is why I like to ask questions before jumping to conclusions.

Notice that when I said my piece to McLovin based on her repetitive questions I felt were repeatedly answered...(as did the people who answered her) in addition to my comment(s) that I felt like she was coming across as bitter (an opinion I'm entitled to correct? or is that reserved for people who spout out inaccurate information as opposed to opinions...but I digress), I addressed them under the first post I quoted of hers...the rest of her replies I quoted underneath, as I felt they were they were representative of the repetitive and/or inaccurate info she repeatedly posted.



*edit...Although now as I'm looking back on that thread (about religion and the gym), I'm guessing it doesn't go both ways with you based upon a couple of your posts. I guess it's ok for you make these kinds of statements about non-christians, but I get the level of hatred from your post for asking a question?

I am going to apologize in advance for being long winded. Based on the above post I am interpreting you are calling anyone who responded to you or anyone else from CEA presumptuous, bullys, and ignorant, but everything posted from the CEA side should be met with no questions or response. Based several of the posts I have copied and pasted below, there is quite a bit of double talk and many questions which have gone unanswered. I couldn’t figure out how to quote multiple posts, so I put the posters name in front of the post bolded some parts:
@McLovin said: The year I'm thinking of was when they were small junior coed and they beat us. I believe Cali junior coed won and CEA came in 2nd. We were 3rd. I remember people talking about it all over facebook how they were taking their top 20 athletes from jr. elite and jr. coed elite and making one team for Dallas...Now that I'm remembering, it had to have been 2 years ago so 2010.
In response, mstealtoyou said: Any Jr team that was small came from Raleigh, so they wouldn't have been a compilation of the best 20 athletes from Jr Elite and Jr Coed Elite who come from Kernersville. Not to mention Raleigh has their own talented kids without needing any help from Kernersville. (Just my biased opinion though. LOL)
So rather than “jump to conclusions” McLovin asked again Mclovin said: Nope, they were small junior coed and it was 2010. Holden was on the team and he's a K'Ville athlete, right? I could definitely have the names of the teams wrong though. I don't really follow them that closely. I just remember that CEA had a small junior 5, a large junior coed 5 and a large junior all girl 5 and they took their best 20 athletes and put them on one team for NCA. I know Holden was on there for sure. The rest of the kids I have no idea. But I had two families specifically from CEA tell me this exact info on the whole "tryout for Dallas" stuff.
@Mstealtoyou said: Holden is 1 of those kids that has no home city so to speak. LMAO He goes where he wants to go. But he does not live in Kernersville, for the record. Raleigh Sm Jr Coed won in 2010 with Holden on the team. This was NOT a compilation of the best 20 kids from all of the CEA Jr teams. This was a team made up of kids from Raleigh for the Raleigh team.
@starshiptrooper said: I was not there, but I can tell you msteal was and she is the MOST STRAIGHT FORWARD and HONEST person you will ever encounter. Ever. She was clear. Raleigh and Kernersville have not shared athletes in years
So, at the risk of sounding “presumptuous”, you say Raleigh doesn’t need any help from Kernersville and the two locations have not shared athletes in years, but then once it was established that Holden competed for Raleigh and Kernersville the explanation is that Holden doesn’t live in Kernersville and therefor it is ok for him to compete for both locations (which unless I missed something it has not been confirmed they have the same tax id number which leads to an entire new set of presumptions since there has been no answer).
In response to “repeated” questions (which you state you like to ask questions before jumping to conclusions and that is exactly what Mclovin was doing….) regarding if tryouts were held for the Dallas team:
Ceacoach said: At NCA in 2010 CEA won large junior 5, small Junior coed 5 and youth 5. All representative of the teams chosen at tryouts. Both junior teams were equivalently talented one from kville one from Raleigh. You are mistaken on your Mega team junior tryout theory.
@mstealtoyou said: That was 2011.......I've already answered this question. 34 kids were original member's of the team. 2 were new add on's from the other Jr team. The friend and my cp were already on this team originally, they were just excited to keep their spots.
So it is confirmed that the teams were representative of the original teams chosen at tryouts but not the same teams and there were “evaluations” that year and many including mstealtoyou CP were happy to keep their spots….sorry to be “presumptuous” but it sounds like a tryout in some way, shape or form to me. I am not saying what was done is wrong – just saying Mclovin was not given the clear answers you say she was and she was not wrong in asking for clarification.
Moving on to the crossover issue:
@starshiptrooper said: You know, at some point this crossover stuff and accusations of stacking teams goes from legitimate question and discussion into the realm of looking and smelling like people trying to purposely diminish the accomplishments of the kids and the staff in major competitions. And a lot of it appears to be incorrect assumption and misinformation.
@starshiptrooper said: The use of crossovers in a gym in Kernersville is what is effecting cheerleading from becoming legitimate? You believe that? I think there are many here who would be shocked at the number of kids in Kernersville, but I can tell you it is less than virtually every gym here that is complaing. Often much less.
@starshiptrooper said: I am not defending the medium co-ed team. I'll leave it at that and let her if she wants. I do understand real concerns there.
Amen, we agree on something – I understand real concerns there as well. As far as purposely trying to diminish CEA’s success and posting incorrect assumptions – not true. You say yourself there is an issue, and if it was Craptastic Allstars that did the same thing, you can bet I would be all over them as well.
@extremetealforlife said: Oh really? Could have fooled me...bc it seems like despite it being explained over and over and over and over again..you either A) can't read B) lack general comprehension skills or C) Lying about the bolded part above. Just look at all of your posts below dude! Jesus christ..you couldn't even get your own facts straight and despite being told over and over about the whole "tryout" issue for the "special Dallas team", not only did you flat out ignore it, but you continued to hammer at mstealtoyou (mostly) necessarily. Considering she answered you accurately the FIRST time, I think you owe her an apology!
@McLovin doesn’t owe anyone an apology. She was never rude and she made some valid points that have merit. If anyone has been treated with disrespect it is her. She doesn’t need to be sworn at, and none of us need to be told we can’t read or lack general comprehension skills or be accused of lying when we see the back and forth posts from the CEA Army. Not one poster has treated anyone who answered for CEA that way. Next time you point a finger, perhaps you should point it toward the mirror.

 

[Mclovin]

quitthedrama -- I don't know you but thank you... truly from the bottom if my heart.