All-Star "cheering All The Way To The Er" Article

[Jadie_Loves_Cheer]

Our state is somewhat "overseen" by a group. Unfortunately, this group and the schools will back an inexperienced coach 100%. High school cheer is VERY dangerous as is now. As a parent of a child on a high school cheer competition team I strongly feel this sport needs to be gone from high school, as HS competition cheer is ran now. I also have NEVER in 7 years of all star cheer have seen the number of injuries as I had in ONE year of high school cheer.

There are ways to fix this but in my personal experience, schools will NEVER change a thing. Schools don't see a problem. There is no problem, coach said so.

I think poorly trained and educated coaches pushing their teams to throw more difficult tumbling skills and stunts before they are mentally and physically ready are to blame for a LARGE number of the injuries. Also, not all high schools have mats or the funding to provide mats for its cheerleaders.

 

[gimmeoneminute]

I think poorly trained and educated coaches pushing their teams to throw more difficult tumbling skills and stunts before they are mentally and physically ready are to blame for a LARGE number of the injuries. Also, not all high schools have mats or the funding to provide mats for its cheerleaders.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[12stepCheermom]

Really? That's interesting, since I somewhat remember a team that was disqualified for competing with a male one or two years ago... Yeah, Michigan cheer has its flaws. We had a judge this past season scold our coach for putting a skill on the score sheet he's never heard of. It was a back extension roll.

Well in legal terms, any school that accepts federal funds (if its a public school that would apply) cannot exclude someone from trying out for a sport based on gender unless there's a comparable substitute.

It's why girls cannot be excluded from trying out for the football team (and can't be cut because they're a girl, they can be cut because they're not good enough) but they can be excluded for trying out for baseball (if softball is available since its the female equivalent).

Being that cheer has no male equivalent (and is readily accepted as a coed activity) a guy shouldn't be exclude from participation merely because he's a guy. Title IX prohibits that. It was built to assure equality for women but it works both ways.

Unless its a private school that doesn't accept federal funding and in that case ignore everything I just said because it doesn't apply :D


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[ShoWStoppeR]

I am almost finish writing my response, but like I said earlier, I'm sure I've taken a very different approach.... I have actually used bits and pieces of the email I had sent to Debbie Love concerning the rule changes that were proposed, and my suggestion of incorporating an athletic trainer on staff. If any of ya'll would like to read it, I would be more than happy to share it with you.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

If you're going to write such a rude article, at least have some solid background knowledge of the subject and decent facts supporting your opinion. And also, why are people so closed minded to accepting cheerleading as a sport?! We train, sweat, bleed, and compete just like every other athlete in the world. Why do people get so upset about what we do being considered as a sport? It's not like it really affects them anyway. Grrrr... I could go on for hours!!!

if you look into the logistics of it, it's a lot more than just "accepting" it as a sport. there are actually a lot of factors involved. trust me, I was on the band wagon for a long time about recognition as a sport. and then I did my psych and soc project on "what a real sport is", and believe it or not, I'm really not quite as on board anymore... based on the rules with NCAA and title nine, I'm afraid it might do the sport more harm than good. my biggest push for wanting it a sport is obviously for proper medical care. BUT athletic trainers don't just cover varsity sports... yes, that's the most common setting you seem the working in, but we have very many options. so that means technically speaking, a school should have no problem providing its club sports/activities/ what not with an AT. it wont ever happen though. wanna know why? money. and thats a darn shame, and frankly, utterly ridiculous. if they would rather face the press with news stories about one of their cheerleaders that suffered a catastrophic injury, than have at it. but me personally? it would be much less stressful and much more wise to just provide an AT. I get they aren't a coach, but the reality is, it is much easier to teach a certified AT to coach a sport than a coach to be an AT (which isn't physically possible anyway considering this is a medical degree we are talking about). With the extensive classwork involved in this major, we learn all about MOIs, biomechanics, and risk factors. that knowledge can be applied to any sport. If I taught a "skills seminar" with an AT, and then later exposed them to videos of very questionable performances/skills, I can guarantee you they would be able to pick out the problem and how to address it.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

And swelling? You know my CP wasn't allowed to move her arm and had to keep it elevated at all times when she broke her arm 2 seasons ago. Thankfully your wife got us to the ER and stayed their until the hubby was done w/his clinical that day. :) I remember you saying it was good it was a clean break..when I saw that this past weekend, my heart went out to him bc it was obvious his wasn't. :(
Yeah you're right about the DVT's and embolisms...Sorry I was thinking about my mom's constant in and out of the hospitals for her numerous surgeries, etc. and she did actually develop a DVT that was fortunately caught (even though she was already on coumadin or warafin-not at the same time, just changing the meds) and I remember she couldn't move at all...but she was high risk bc she couldn't move around a lot the last few years of her life.

 

[CEA_ATC]

well actually, with all due respect, this is true. You see alot more allstars blowing ACLs then you do college folk. The spring that all those athletes love is actually often times the culprit of alot of injuries. So as much as dead mat really sucks to tumble on (and it too has its downfalls... just imagine the grinding and pounding of your joints), spring floor actually is more dangerous to tumble on.

Speaking as an athletic trainer who actually covers these events and works with injured athletes, I call BS here. You are looking at a correlation, not a causation:

My favorite correlation/causation example:

What if I told you churches CAUSE crime? Studies show that areas with the highest number of churches per square mile have the highest crime rates in our country. It is pretty much a linear relationship. So, churches must cause crime, right? (this is a correlation)
Or maybe it is that the areas with the most churches ave the most people, and where there are more people, there is more crime. (this is a causation)

The statement that more Allstars tear ACLs than collegiate cheer does nothing to account for a few things: there are SIGNIFICANTLY more AS than Collegiate cheerleaders, so sample size is a huge issue; it says nothing about the strength and physical maturity level of the college girls, which is (on average) much greater than that of the younger girls in AS cheer. When you account for those factors, I do not believe that the spring floor is a major contributor to lower extremity injuries. In fact, if you account for the added lift off the floor, you could say that it may even lessen that chance, considering that UNDER rotating a twisting skill is one of the big factors in knee injuries, and under rotation is less of a problem on a spring floor. If you then account for the danger from impact injuries (falling from stunts, etc...), and the long term danger that those injuries have (head trauma, etc...), you can't make a great argument against the spring floor use.

 

[INeverStopCheering]

I wrote this guy a letter...and based on his response I can tell he didn't even read it! I will post both

I'm sure you've been receiving hundreds of email from angry cheerleaders and I surely hope mine does not wind up in spam. I read your article and the response you sent to a girl.

While I admire the fact that you could admit your mistake, the fact that people might misconstrue your article to be talking about Allstars was not what bothered me. It was the awful stereotyping and unrealistic solution to the problem. Yes high school cheerleading is dangerous because our ADs, schools systems and states don't give a damn about us. The solution is not for us go back to the sidelines, pep up, and shake our pom poms (eh hem, the 1950's called, they want their stereotype back), the solution is for the people who are supposed to be looking out for the well being of athletes to wake up and smell the coffee. This thing isn't going away. And it desperately need rules and guidelines. Suggesting that dedicated athletes have to quit something they love because the adults who are in charge are too stupid, careless, or stuck in the past to recognize their status as athletes and give them the proper rules and benefits is offensive.

Write me an article petitioning the high school athletic association to recognize these amazing and hard working boys and girls as athletes, and that's something I'll stand behind.

Thank you for your time,
____________________________________________________________________

Hi Lauren -

I think there is room for both.
I don't think there's anything wrong with 1950s cheerleaders with pom-poms, megaphones, whatever. If that's what they want to do, good for them. (My entire point was that's NOT what they want to do)
I also have no problem with AllStar cheer.

What I have a problem with is that participants in HS activities such as basketball, wrestling, track, etc., are treated differently than the HS cheerleaders (or whatever you want to call it — spirit squad, or sideline cheer, etc.).
When that girl hit the concrete at our state tournament she was on her own. If she were playing in the sanctioned game, she would have had legal and medical protection. Without it, she's got serious decisions to make.

The difference in this state is, AllStar cheer is regulated by private gyms. If they lose their USASF accredidation, they are likely going out of business. If a HS cheerleader breaks her hip, its just tough luck.

The cheer column was regarding a local Idaho HS cheer issue ONLY (sideline cheer or spirit team) — not at all directed at all AllStar cheer organizations worldwide.

When I was using the term "competitive cheer" it was in reference to HS kids practicing and performing Level 2 and sometimes Level 3 stunts over hardwood floors and sometimes concrete.

I don't even consider AllStar athletes to be cheerleaders, because as one of my more lucid detractors points out, "we don't cheer and we don't lead." Moreover, most AllStar cheer athletes reject sideline cheer and want no association with it. I wasn't remotely referring to AllStar or other club organizations. Never crossed my mind.

In the first sentence of my letter I said that what bothered me was not that people may misconstrue what he was talking about as Allstars. And he wrote me a whole letter about Allstars....:mad:

 

[CEA_ATC]

I am almost finish writing my response, but like I said earlier, I'm sure I've taken a very different approach.... I have actually used bits and pieces of the email I had sent to Debbie Love concerning the rule changes that were proposed, and my suggestion of incorporating an athletic trainer on staff. If any of ya'll would like to read it, I would be more than happy to share it with you.

Speaking of this, ShoWStoppeR.... I have no idea where you are located, or if you are a gym owner or an EP (or both)... but if you do ever need a certified AT with AS/HS cheer experience, keep me in mind!! Love working these events and helping these kids get good medical care when they have some physical "issues"!

 

[catlady]

well actually, with all due respect, this is true. You see alot more allstars blowing ACLs then you do college folk. The spring that all those athletes love is actually often times the culprit of alot of injuries. So as much as dead mat really sucks to tumble on (and it too has its downfalls... just imagine the grinding and pounding of your joints), spring floor actually is more dangerous to tumble on.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Soccer and Basketball have the most ACL tears in the sport world and they are not caused by bounce but, by the "planting and twisting" of the foot while pivoting the body. My guess if it is truly happening more in the All Star world it has more to do with growth spurts and larger population, not the spring floor.
My daughter has a bleeding disorder and we have talked to almost every specialist out there about cheer. The hematologist and orthopaedic said if everyone used spring floors, used proper ankle and wrist braces for tumbling, and some type of head protection during the training of stunts they would likely see 50-75% fewer injuries.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Soccer and Basketball have the most ACL tears in the sport world and they are not caused by bounce but, by the "planting and twisting" of the foot while pivoting the body. My guess if it is truly happening more in the All Star world it has more to do with growth spurts and larger population, not the spring floor.
My daughter has a bleeding disorder and we have talked to almost every specialist out there about cheer. The hematologist and orthopaedic said if everyone used spring floors, used proper ankle and wrist braces for tumbling, and some type of head protection during the training of stunts they would likely see 50-75% fewer injuries.

no I see where you're coming from.... I wouldn't say that it is more dangerous to tumble on, but there a number of cases of ACL injuries in particular that occur from the "spring", 2 of which I have been an eye witness.

To be honest, there is no "safe surface" to do these skills on.... and as much as everyone likes to argue to get spring floors for HS/college, we all know that will never happen due to money issues.... instead, we just need more coaches focusing more on technique than "just whip it out" because let me say, I fell victim to the second type of coaching at the first all star gym I attended, and it is haunting me to this day on dead mat.... part of the reason I'm afraid I will be retiring a year early.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

Speaking as an athletic trainer who actually covers these events and works with injured athletes, I call BS here. You are looking at a correlation, not a causation:

My favorite correlation/causation example:

What if I told you churches CAUSE crime? Studies show that areas with the highest number of churches per square mile have the highest crime rates in our country. It is pretty much a linear relationship. So, churches must cause crime, right? (this is a correlation)
Or maybe it is that the areas with the most churches ave the most people, and where there are more people, there is more crime. (this is a causation)

The statement that more Allstars tear ACLs than collegiate cheer does nothing to account for a few things: there are SIGNIFICANTLY more AS than Collegiate cheerleaders, so sample size is a huge issue; it says nothing about the strength and physical maturity level of the college girls, which is (on average) much greater than that of the younger girls in AS cheer. When you account for those factors, I do not believe that the spring floor is a major contributor to lower extremity injuries. In fact, if you account for the added lift off the floor, you could say that it may even lessen that chance, considering that UNDER rotating a twisting skill is one of the big factors in knee injuries, and under rotation is less of a problem on a spring floor. If you then account for the danger from impact injuries (falling from stunts, etc...), and the long term danger that those injuries have (head trauma, etc...), you can't make a great argument against the spring floor use.

like I said in my other post, my wording was not quite right (I blame it on the vicodin, hence the reason the pile of hw is still sitting nice and tall. My assumption that I could play on the fierceboard was a bad one) I would not necessarily say spring floor leaves athletes with a higher chance of injury.... in comparison to dead mat, I would agree that it is safer, but to a degree. just the way she had worded her post had made it sound like spring floor essentially was fool proof... which I would hope we all know by now is certainly not the case. I was just making a point that of the injuries that I have witnessed, ACL injuries seem to be a big culprit... lots of not knowing the power of the spring, bouncing, planting and rotating. its not a pretty sight to witness.

as for working as an ATC with cheerleaders, I am not a coach. It definitely is a goal down the line, but I'm still finishing school. I'm actually in the process of applying to physicians assistant school.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Speaking as an athletic trainer who actually covers these events and works with injured athletes, I call BS here. You are looking at a correlation, not a causation:

My favorite correlation/causation example:

What if I told you churches CAUSE crime? Studies show that areas with the highest number of churches per square mile have the highest crime rates in our country. It is pretty much a linear relationship. So, churches must cause crime, right? (this is a correlation)
Or maybe it is that the areas with the most churches ave the most people, and where there are more people, there is more crime. (this is a causation)

The statement that more Allstars tear ACLs than collegiate cheer does nothing to account for a few things: there are SIGNIFICANTLY more AS than Collegiate cheerleaders, so sample size is a huge issue; it says nothing about the strength and physical maturity level of the college girls, which is (on average) much greater than that of the younger girls in AS cheer. When you account for those factors, I do not believe that the spring floor is a major contributor to lower extremity injuries. In fact, if you account for the added lift off the floor, you could say that it may even lessen that chance, considering that UNDER rotating a twisting skill is one of the big factors in knee injuries, and under rotation is less of a problem on a spring floor. If you then account for the danger from impact injuries (falling from stunts, etc...), and the long term danger that those injuries have (head trauma, etc...), you can't make a great argument against the spring floor use.

Yep that's science 101- correlation does not equal causation.
Other options must be explored like proper instruction, type of shoes worn, preexisting conditions, etc.
Or in English it's a logical fallacy.

Now maybe there are some studies to support her assertion, but I just think about doing a toe touch on the hard ground like I did in HS or in the gym on the spring floor and I can tell you from personal experience that it's way rougher on my knees and ankles on the concrete.

Plus aren't women at higher risk of ACL tears in general bc of our natural biomechanics and anatomical differences?

 

[cheer25mom]

I wrote this guy a letter...and based on his response I can tell he didn't even read it! I will post both

I'm sure you've been receiving hundreds of email from angry cheerleaders and I surely hope mine does not wind up in spam. I read your article and the response you sent to a girl.

While I admire the fact that you could admit your mistake, the fact that people might misconstrue your article to be talking about Allstars was not what bothered me. It was the awful stereotyping and unrealistic solution to the problem. Yes high school cheerleading is dangerous because our ADs, schools systems and states don't give a damn about us. The solution is not for us go back to the sidelines, pep up, and shake our pom poms (eh hem, the 1950's called, they want their stereotype back), the solution is for the people who are supposed to be looking out for the well being of athletes to wake up and smell the coffee. This thing isn't going away. And it desperately need rules and guidelines. Suggesting that dedicated athletes have to quit something they love because the adults who are in charge are too stupid, careless, or stuck in the past to recognize their status as athletes and give them the proper rules and benefits is offensive.

Write me an article petitioning the high school athletic association to recognize these amazing and hard working boys and girls as athletes, and that's something I'll stand behind.

Thank you for your time,
____________________________________________________________________

Hi Lauren -

I think there is room for both.
I don't think there's anything wrong with 1950s cheerleaders with pom-poms, megaphones, whatever. If that's what they want to do, good for them. (My entire point was that's NOT what they want to do)
I also have no problem with AllStar cheer.

What I have a problem with is that participants in HS activities such as basketball, wrestling, track, etc., are treated differently than the HS cheerleaders (or whatever you want to call it — spirit squad, or sideline cheer, etc.).
When that girl hit the concrete at our state tournament she was on her own. If she were playing in the sanctioned game, she would have had legal and medical protection. Without it, she's got serious decisions to make.

The difference in this state is, AllStar cheer is regulated by private gyms. If they lose their USASF accredidation, they are likely going out of business. If a HS cheerleader breaks her hip, its just tough luck.

The cheer column was regarding a local Idaho HS cheer issue ONLY (sideline cheer or spirit team) — not at all directed at all AllStar cheer organizations worldwide.

When I was using the term "competitive cheer" it was in reference to HS kids practicing and performing Level 2 and sometimes Level 3 stunts over hardwood floors and sometimes concrete.

I don't even consider AllStar athletes to be cheerleaders, because as one of my more lucid detractors points out, "we don't cheer and we don't lead." Moreover, most AllStar cheer athletes reject sideline cheer and want no association with it. I wasn't remotely referring to AllStar or other club organizations. Never crossed my mind.

In the first sentence of my letter I said that what bothered me was not that people may misconstrue what he was talking about as Allstars. And he wrote me a whole letter about Allstars....:mad:

It think it is a canned response he wrote to rebut everyone who wrote him because I got the exact same response word for word.

 

[Goosepatrick]

Funny, I wrote him and I'm the mom of the girl he saw fall at state basketball and he hasn't responded to me..:(..;)