All-Star Closer To Being A College Sport?

[King]

I have been saying since the two started that in order for it to work they would both need to combine and have one that everyone who wants this NCAA status can enjoy. Personally I can't get the nervous feeling out of my stomach with the thought of NCAA taking over some of these teams simply because I don't think it is going to be what some of these athletes imagine it will be. I know that they want to scholarships, but many of these athletes are coming form an all star background and NCATA and STUNT is far from what they have been doing for years. Not only that but the restrictions that will be put in place is a scary thought. Say goodbye to some of the athletes that are on International 5 and 6 teams because if they are on one of these teams they will no longer be on these teams, unless there is a way around that somehow.

I will not feel comfortable about it until it actually happens and can see what the outcome is. Currently I do not like the idea at all. It also frustrates me that coed is ignored.

Coed won't be a sport for a while, if at all. There just isn't the numbers and interest.

 

[BlueCat]

It also frustrates me that coed is ignored.

One of the primary attractions to schools is that it creates a way to conform to Title IX government quotas by making more scholarships available to girls. (or more accurately, allowing them to substitute cheer for other female sports that lose them more money.) This basically means that guys will not likely get scholarships under the new system.

The positive (for cheerleaders) is that it could move some scholarships from other sports like volleyball/softball/gymnastics over to some cheer athletes.

 

[ztaprincess]

One of the primary attractions to schools is that it creates a way to conform to Title IX government quotas by making more scholarships available to girls. (or more accurately, allowing them to substitute cheer for other female sports that lose them more money.) This basically means that guys will not likely get scholarships under the new system.

The positive (for cheerleaders) is that it could move some scholarships from other sports like volleyball/softball/gymnastics over to some cheer athletes.

Oh I know it just frustrates me because I feel the male athletes deserve the scholarships just as much as the girls. Hopefully if this goes through they can try their hardest to work with adding coed in the future.

 

[cheererinIL]

Oh I know it just frustrates me because I feel the male athletes deserve the scholarships just as much as the girls. Hopefully if this goes through they can try their hardest to work with adding coed in the future.

It's like using Title IX the opposite way in which it was intended.

 

[BlueCat]

The whole scholarship thing has always struck me as a bit unusual to begin with. It sounds awesome in theory (woohoo - free school!), but making the majority of the students pay more so that a few can go for free doesn't seem particularly fair. I get it when getting a particular student can then, in turn, raise more money for the school than what they paid (think star quarterback.) The college is getting a return on investment there, which actually could make overall tuition cheaper for regular students.

(Talking about scholarships given by the college/university itself. Outside, private sources of scholarships are great.)

 

[King]

The whole scholarship thing has always struck me as a bit unusual to begin with. It sounds awesome in theory (woohoo - free school!), but making the majority of the students pay more so that a few can go for free doesn't seem particularly fair. I get it when getting a particular student can then, in turn, raise more money for the school than what they paid (think star quarterback.) The college is getting a return on investment there, which actually could make overall tuition cheaper for regular students.

(Talking about scholarships given by the college/university itself. Outside, private sources of scholarships are great.)

So the principle of it you are not a fan of? I would say there are a lot of benefits from offering certain people scholarships. those people may not sell more tickets (always) but create an environment which will in turn attract a better quality of student to the university and also help the reputation.

Lot's of Ivy League schools do not offer scholarships directly. My Alma Mater (Georgia Tech) is ranked quite high in a lot of engineering and math / science fields. While a great school it does not have 'quite' as good a name as some of the Ivy Leagues. But I know quite a few people who got into GT as well as some of the Ivy Leagues that went to Tech because of the scholarships they were offered. Those prime students made the university more elite (raised our overall average incoming test and GPA scores) as well many of them went on to work for our research department (GTRI) which is really big or some even stayed on to teach. Is this any different than a gym offering kids reduced fees or free tuition to compete?

 

[SharkDad]

I have said multiple times in threads about Competitive College Cheer that for the good of the sport the right answer is for both groups to stop going their separate ways and sit down to come up with a joint solution. This need to be focused on what the best, safest sport format is and not focus on industry production. An inherently safe and sound sport concept will recieve the participation it needs to survive.

The article spells out the solution very simply:
- Provide a unified competition concept that includes scoring, schedule, and season/offseason training rules
- Demonstrate how credentialling will occur for coaches, judges, etc
- Demonstrate how the sport will benefit from production at lower levels
- Show schools administrations that have signed up for the format

At the moment NCATA is way ahead of STUNT and providing this logical of a format, but I would much rather see a format that is created and endorsed by athletes and coaches in the sport WITH A NON-BIASED, NON-PROFIT GOVERNING BODY than one format that beats the other out of spite.

The NCAA's request makes perfect sense and I am happy they are asking for it in plain English.

 

[BlueCat]

So the principle of it you are not a fan of? I would say there are a lot of benefits from offering certain people scholarships. those people may not sell more tickets (always) but create an environment which will in turn attract a better quality of student to the university and also help the reputation.

Lot's of Ivy League schools do not offer scholarships directly. My Alma Mater (Georgia Tech) is ranked quite high in a lot of engineering and math / science fields. While a great school it does not have 'quite' as good a name as some of the Ivy Leagues. But I know quite a few people who got into GT as well as some of the Ivy Leagues that went to Tech because of the scholarships they were offered. Those prime students made the university more elite (raised our overall average incoming test and GPA scores) as well many of them went on to work for our research department (GTRI) which is really big or some even stayed on to teach. Is this any different than a gym offering kids reduced fees or free tuition to compete?

If it works out that there is a net benefit to the college/university, then I am OK with it (much the same as gyms). My impression is that colleges going through hoops to be Title IX compliant creates situations where this is not the case. IMHO, it isn't Congress' job to get involved in directing what types of students get money essentially from other students. To me, that is like the USASF setting up a program dictating to gym owners who they can offer reduced tuition to.

If you think of scholarships as money magically raining down from the sky, then it sounds awesome. When you think of it as money that could have been used to lower everyone else's tuition, it can change your opinion a bit.

 

[SharkDad]

If it works out that there is a net benefit to the college/university, then I am OK with it (much the same as gyms). My impression is that colleges going through hoops to be Title IX compliant creates situations where this is not the case. IMHO, it isn't Congress' job to get involved in directing what types of students get money essentially from other students. To me, that is like the USASF setting up a program dictating to gym owners who they can offer reduced tuition to.

If you think of scholarships as money magically raining down from the sky, then it sounds awesome. When you think of it as money that could have been used to lower everyone else's tuition, it can change your opinion a bit.

This is all strictly my opinion (some first hand conversation, but mainly reading), but the colleges I know of that have accepted NCATA did it because they find it to be a sound format and it benefits the athletes and the university. With full university athletic department endorsement, there is full recruitment, scholarships, athlete academic/training benefits, and funding for the coaching staff.

Many teams have copeted STUNT thanks to industry sponsorship but I have not read of one instance where there is the same level of school administration support. As has been pointed out, even the most supported schools that retain UCA or NCA competitive styles may get some of the same support as other sports, but I don't know of any that get all of it. As the UofA ring situation demonstrated, this level of support is always conditional.

I'd be happy for some to point out where I have been mis-informed.

 

[kristenthegreat]

As a girl, to me, Title IX is GREAT in theory and might have worked to some degree, but it is slowly becoming more like 'No Child Left Behind'- GREAT idea and GREAT on paper, but the execution has some unintended negative consequences..

 

[ztaprincess]

As a girl, to me, Title IX is GREAT in theory and might have worked to some degree, but it is slowly becoming more like 'No Child Left Behind'- GREAT idea and GREAT on paper, but the execution has some unintended negative consequences..

I feel many things like this that target a certain group of people many times start out great and sound amazing, but in reality have many negatives that come from it. Many of the people in charge are looking at only the positives of this and forgetting all the negatives that come from it (not talking about anyone who has posted thus far). This is something that needs a lot of working on instead of just pushing it through without working out all the kinks.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I feel many things like this that target a certain group of people many times start out great and sound amazing, but in reality have many negatives that come from it. Many of the people in charge are looking at only the positives of this and forgetting all the negatives that come from it (not talking about anyone who has posted thus far). This is something that needs a lot of working on instead of just pushing it through without working out all the kinks.

As an athlete, I'd hate to think some 'deserving' male (although I hate that word, it's the only one that works here) athlete couldn't get a scholarship to a school or couldn't participate in a sport he wanted because 'of me.' I know it's not personally my fault (duh), but as a woman I can admit I want things to be fair, not some reverse sexism fairness given out of guilt.

 

[ShutItDown]

i really dont want it to be considered a sport. my school considers us a sport and they give us absolutely nothing and theres so many rules and guidelines we must follow because we are a sport. Were not even allowed to compete as exibition at Jamfest or other allstar comps or in our own state, so we have to do all out of state comps and do our nationals at canams-_-I wish it would just either be a sport or not, we all know what we do is a sport...

 

[SharkDad]

We have to stay out of any argument that tries to fix Title IX. That may or may not happen, but it would be a totally different effort than anyone trying to make Competitive Cheer a sport.

As an athlete, I'd hate to think some 'deserving' male (although I hate that word, it's the only one that works here) athlete couldn't get a scholarship to a school or couldn't participate in a sport he wanted because 'of me.' I know it's not personally my fault (duh), but as a woman I can admit I want things to be fair, not some reverse sexism fairness given out of guilt.

No males really lose their scholarships because of women. A school has to comply with the law so they need equal opportunites. There are few places to add more female sports on most school budgets, so sometimes they have to drop male teams and add female teams to balance it out. Adding Competitive Cheer, especially if it can make the school some money to support it's budget, can actuallly create other team opportunites for males if there are enough participants.

i really dont want it to be considered a sport. my school considers us a sport and they give us absolutely nothing and theres so many rules and guidelines we must follow because we are a sport. Were not even allowed to compete as exibition at Jamfest or other allstar comps or in our own state, so we have to do all out of state comps and do our nationals at canams-_-I wish it would just either be a sport or not, we all know what we do is a sport...

Your school gives you some sport considerations and treat you like a sport, but you are not a true sport to them otherwise they would provide you many more benefits than you are getting. (recruiting, FULL scholarships, athletic department funding, etc)

 

[ShutItDown]

We have to stay out of any argument that tries to fix Title IX. That may or may not happen, but it would be a totally different effort than anyone trying to make Competitive Cheer a sport.

No males really lose their scholarships because of women. A school has to comply with the law so they need equal opportunites. There are few places to add more female sports on most school budgets, so sometimes they have to drop male teams and add female teams to balance it out. Adding Competitive Cheer, especially if it can make the school some money to support it's budget, can actuallly create other team opportunites for males if there are enough participants.

Your school gives you some sport considerations and treat you like a sport, but you are not a true sport to them otherwise they would provide you many more benefits than you are getting. (recruiting, FULL scholarships, athletic department funding, etc)

we're DIII so we cant get full scholarships. The AD gives us less money for dinner and such and supply us with vans to go to high school comps. other than that and insurance...which covers absolutely nothing more than a bag of ice...we get very little.