All-Star Competing For Free

[12stepCheermom]

ASCheerMan I see what you're saying about individual athletes, but for some reason they still don't line up in my head. Maybe because scholar shipping an athlete stil benefits me as a program member even if I'm paying. I guess "scholarship ping" the other team can do that (in theory) as well by providing me competition.... But the last thing you said about being treated fairly on the scoresheet when you were treated fairly in registration completely resonated with me.

And one day...at some point in my CPs lives.....well get to go to Dallas. :(

 

[5-6-7-8]

ASCheerMan I see what you're saying about individual athletes, but for some reason they still don't line up in my head. Maybe because scholar shipping an athlete stil benefits me as a program member even if I'm paying. I guess "scholarship ping" the other team can do that (in theory) as well by providing me competition.... But the last thing you said about being treated fairly on the scoresheet when you were treated fairly in registration completely resonated with me.

And one day...at some point in my CPs lives.....well get to go to Dallas. :(

The scoresheet part is a good point.

Reality or not, there are already issues with the perception of inconsistent (to be fair) scoring. There is generally very little transparency in scoring and knowing teams are treated differently at registration definitely doesn't help impure confidence that favors aren't going on elsewhere.

But back to my earlier point...if an EP is putting on a good solid event, they shouldn't be resorting to inviting other teams. I get there are so many local comps that sometimes they are small. But there are some local comps that are great to attend as both a competitor and spectator, and they happen to draw a good number of teams.

 

[cupieqt]

Does this include kids within a gym? Do you disagree with scholarships for athletes?

I'm not sure I understand your question and what it has to do with competition fees.

ETA: everyone at my gym pays their fees equally. We do offer scholarships up to 60% off tuition but financial need must be proven in order to qualify. It's a tedious process so only those that truly need it will even apply.

 

[catlady]

From another angle......
As a parent of two kids and wife to a great husband that I'd like to keep, there are only so many weekends and so many dollars we can spend on travel per child. Even though we would save approx. $50-75 on competition fees per day, there is the reality of additional coaches fees, gas, hotel, food, parking and admissions. EP's might gain a few dollars in the beginning but, gym owners still have the tough job of deciding how much is "too much" before their parents start bailing because of travel costs and balancing time with all of their kids. "Compete for free".... I don't think there is a cheer parent out there that will drink that Kool-Aid.

 

[ASCheerMan]

How can an Event Producer reassure a customer that all teams are being treated fairly when they take the mat when teams aren't being treated fairly when they register and pay.

Let me clarify: I don't think for a second that letting a team compete for free equates to getting preferential treatment in the scores and rankings. Judges judge and Registrations departments collect money. But I do think that, given many coaches automatically assume politics are at play, adding FREE registration in the mix makes it a more challenging conversation to have with the disgruntled coach.

Not working out 'deals' with customers is a business choice we've made, but it doesn't mean its the best choice for every EP.

 

[tumbleyoda]

What if a paying gym finds out before time that another gym that was competing in their division was comped their entry fees and withdrew? Would we blame the gym for running away from competition or the EP for not treating their clients fairly when the gym owner was simply looking out for their clients? Once again it becomes how can the EP's make money. Not against it but what about the gym owners?

I am not suggesting that there is a perfect answer but when you start comping programs comp fees, that is a very slippery slope to go down and almost always raises the perception of favoritism. Does it make sense at times from a business perspective - certainly. But you have to weigh that with the backlash if you are found out. IMO if you do it, you may as well be honest about it. That way people know ahead of time and then can make decisions whether or not to still attend an event.

 

[ASCheerMan]

Once again it becomes how can the EP's make money. Not against it but what about the gym owners?

Actually, I don't see this as being about the EP's making money, quite the opposite--this is about the gym making money. Most of the time, when a program gets a deal, they are STILL charging their parents the registration rate. Letting a team come free is LOST revenue for the Event Producer.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Actually, I don't see this as being about the EP's making money, quite the opposite--this is about the gym making money. Most of the time, when a program gets a deal, they are STILL charging their parents the registration rate. Letting a team come free is LOST revenue for the Event Producer.

I agree it is lost revenue that way. But some of it is made up in the gate and depending on the size of the program that could be significant. Plus if it is truly a do it to make sure there is competition issue, then that means they keep the other gym's money as well or won't have to shift it to another event.

As to the gym still getting the registration rate honestly IDK. I have always been torn on that one. I couldn't do it, which is why I don't need to own a gym - lol. I would have to rebate it at the end of the year or maybe pick another event to go to and use the money for that.

 

[Drkilluzionz]

In the case you're referring to...I wouldn't want to show up and not have anyone to compete against so I actually wouldnt mind.

 

[CheerBank]

In the case you're referring to...I wouldn't want to show up and not have anyone to compete against so I actually wouldnt mind.

And I totally get that. But I would also not want to find out that the EP brought in a team to compete against my cp's team and they didn't have to pay for registration while we did.

 

[CoachTamara]

Actually, I don't see this as being about the EP's making money, quite the opposite--this is about the gym making money. Most of the time, when a program gets a deal, they are STILL charging their parents the registration rate. Letting a team come free is LOST revenue for the Event Producer.

I don't think this is the case. Let's say there is a competition in my town, and we are not going to attend. The competition is pretty small, and some of the divisions have only one team in them.
Let's say my bestie Steven works for the EP. At this point, the EP knows nobody else is going to register, and knows I have a team in the division. Steven calls me up and says "Hey, want to compete this weekend? It's in your town and we need more teams here!" I email the parents and say "Hey! We are giving the teams a chance to compete again, but we won't charge you because we are so nice." EP gets $10 from each parent at the door, resulting in an extra $500 in their pocket. They did nothing, except get more people in the crowd. They staff and event logistics are the same, and they've lost no money.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I don't think this is the case. Let's say there is a competition in my town, and we are not going to attend. The competition is pretty small, and some of the divisions have only one team in them.
Let's say my bestie Steven works for the EP. At this point, the EP knows nobody else is going to register, and knows I have a team in the division. Steven calls me up and says "Hey, want to compete this weekend? It's in your town and we need more teams here!" I email the parents and say "Hey! We are giving the teams a chance to compete again, but we won't charge you because we are so nice." EP gets $10 from each parent at the door, resulting in an extra $500 in their pocket. They did nothing, except get more people in the crowd. They staff and event logistics are the same, and they've lost no money.

We used to do this all the time. If an event was on the smallish side we would call around and see who might be willing to change their schedule and come. One program in particular we knew if they were not already coming, would usually adjust and come because their entry fees would be close to $20,000.00 if they brought all their teams. (That figure is extremely small in comparison to what other EP's charged or larger, more well known programs would pay in entry fees) Now they pay zero. Parents pay at the door. Paying at the door is a win - win for them. EP has competition for teams and makes money at the door, even if it is not as much as from entry fees. Team that paid full price is happy they have competition and usually assumes that the other programs paid just like they did.

Since it is the EP's business I don't argue their right to do this. And if it works with a gym to go and take advantage of this, I understand it too. It happens and nothing will change it. Cost of doing business. But the question if I understood it correctly more related to the gyms that registered for the event in a timely manner. How they felt and if it was fair to them? You paid 75.00 an athlete and 1 or 2 of the teams you are competing against paid zero. You also have to consider with the more things are talked about on social media the chances to keep it quiet that an EP cut a deal with a gym to attend is rapidly disappearing. So they do have to consider how it affects the rest of their paying clientele.

Maybe what all gyms should do is simply not register until the last possible moment. Even if they plan on going all along. That way they could get the best deal possible. Now that would really throw competition scheduling into a bind.:D
Just kidding but it is a thought.

 

[ASCheerMan]

I don't think this is the case. Let's say there is a competition in my town, and we are not going to attend. The competition is pretty small, and some of the divisions have only one team in them.
Let's say my bestie Steven works for the EP. At this point, the EP knows nobody else is going to register, and knows I have a team in the division. Steven calls me up and says "Hey, want to compete this weekend? It's in your town and we need more teams here!" I email the parents and say "Hey! We are giving the teams a chance to compete again, but we won't charge you because we are so nice." EP gets $10 from each parent at the door, resulting in an extra $500 in their pocket. They did nothing, except get more people in the crowd. They staff and event logistics are the same, and they've lost no money.

This scenario isn't just about 'the event producer making money' (I'm too lazy to to go back and see who made that reference first, it may not have been you), it's about salvaging event to minimize how much in the hole the competition could put the EP. You'd be surprised how big a competition needs to be before it starts operating in the positive. That $500 you just gave me is great and all, but I'm STILL probably losing close to 8 or 10K--but am still probably running the event to avoid the backlash from all the gyms who would be seriously inconvenienced if the event were canceled.

 

[championprincess]

There are still costs on a per athlete basis that play into account. Insurance is usually on a per athlete basis, not to mention their medals, trophies, and any gifts that may be involved. Depending on what goes out at that particular event, $10 may not even cover it.

 

[crazycheermom]

The scoresheet part is a good point.

Reality or not, there are already issues with the perception of inconsistent (to be fair) scoring. There is generally very little transparency in scoring and knowing teams are treated differently at registration definitely doesn't help impure confidence that favors aren't going on elsewhere.

But back to my earlier point...if an EP is putting on a good solid event, they shouldn't be resorting to inviting other teams. I get there are so many local comps that sometimes they are small. But there are some local comps that are great to attend as both a competitor and spectator, and they happen to draw a good number of teams.

EPs should guard against not only ACTUAL bias but also the PERCEPTION of bias. Here's a test. If Gym A got entry fee waived. Gym B paid full price. It's a very close competition. Both teams hit a good routine. Gym A wins by a fraction. Will everyone BELIEVE that there was no bias? Kind of like I used to tell my students.. the test of whether you have a conflict of interest... if you make an honest mistake that favors the party you know; would anyone BELIEVE it was an honest mistake.