All-Star Covid-19 / Varsity Response

[catlady]

Quick comment: I apologize for how borderline combative I am being, all of you have been very nice to me in the past and I’m not trying to be offensive. It’s just that I have seen a lot of tragedy occur with this virus and I think a lot of people who haven’t seen what I’ve seen aren’t taking it seriously enough.

My hospital had a 21 year old college baseball player die. 21. He got it from his parents. I’ve seen a lot of men in their 40s who's only medical history is Hypertension die or end up permanently incapacitated by Covid. How many kids in your gym have a dad in his 40s?

I’m not trying to attack anyone, I just want everyone to know what they’re risking when they decide it’s okay that their gym has 4 mats of athletes with no masks on. The kids will probably be fine, but the parents/grandparents? They may not be as lucky. I don’t think your kids would want to know that they contributed to the passing of a loved one.

I appreciate and respect your perspective as a medical professional. Another perspective, my ER nurse niece, BIL doctor, and many of their health professional colleagues are asking governors to rethink mask wearing and go back to encouraging social distancing and hand washing as a means of control. NONE of them are saying this virus can't be tragic or debilitating, but what many doctors are sharing in moderately populated areas with government officials on public mask wearing:

The average person is pulling and readjusting their mask often, many are wearing them beneath their nose/mouth, dangling from one ear, etc. Many in very close proximity. It is unreasonable to compare disciplined mask wearing by medical staff in very cold and humidity controlled hospitals to the general population touching and removing them often in much warmer and more humid environments. The warmer it has gotten, the worse the mask wearing discipline and touching has gotten, increasing the potential for higher spread. There is concern with the push to wear masks in learning and in physical activity environments. Depending on temperature and humidity these masks can become very damp and reduce oxygen intake substantially, which is detrimental to learning, exerting energy and heart health.

 

[123jump4!]

I know for sure because I just checked Oklahoma's is only .6% now. This shows us at 5%.

I am definitely paying attention to this stuff, I am a type 1 diabetic and supposedly one of the riskiest for death if I get it. But I have also talked with multiple T1Ds whose blood sugars stayed in range and did not feel any worse than a severe chest cold. There is so much conflicting information, lives on surfaces now it doesn't, masks will help, won't, will. Young healthy people have died and elderly have recovered.

In our area of 1.2 million people there are now only about 300 known active cases. I know I'm taking a risk by not caring about this mask issue at the gym, but I take a risk every year with the flu which is also worse for diabetics. This virus is not going away and we each have to decide how to live in this new normal.

I will be trying the surgical masks instead of our cloth ones for other outings.

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I googled Oklahoma totals and you have 334 deaths and 6530 confirmed cases. That’s 5% death rate. Where do you get .6 from?

 

[emo_wifey]

I googled Oklahoma totals and you have 334 deaths and 6530 confirmed cases. That’s 5% death rate. Where do you get .6 from?

[emoji1751] I misread a percentage on the state's website. Our daily increase was .6%. According to the state website we are at 4.6% now, so it is dropping. 359 deaths, 7848 total cases.

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[NavarroNewb20]

A quick google found this.

Quite a few people (not just old ones) get very sick for a long time and get organ damage etc, so it’s not just about deaths.

Hope you stay healthy Andy!

I read about a young woman who had to get a lung transplant due to C19. Transplanted organs only last so long, sadly.

 

[AndyT_T]

Where are you getting the 5.6 death rate? I haven't seen anything close to that. In fact I haven't even seen anything even close to that for positive cases compared to population. I follow the two states where I live/my kids live very closely. One is open and started the opening process in mid April and has .34% of positive cases per the population per the data they release daily and the other just barely started phase 2 on Monday. They have less than 500 hospital beds being used for covid or related patients in the entire state. As far as demographics I see similar trends as far as the major percentage of deaths occurring in long term care facilities and/or elderly with both states. That's not to say those deaths don't matter - of course they do, but it is a demographic that isn't exposed to the public in the same way most youth and young adults are. Yes there are outliers such as the example you referenced but we see that in so many other situations too. I would be very open to seeing the link to the data regarding the death rates you are referencing because that would certainly change my opinion on how I view the virus.
ETA: If you aren't attacking anyone then there is really no need to dislike people's posts if they disagree with you especially when the dialogue is respectful.

My mortality rate is from Johns Hopkins: Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center


I disliked your post because I dislike people posting dangerous anti-scientific rhetoric about Covid without having legitimate data to back it up. Covid is not the chickenpox, we don’t know enough about it and it’s affects on our body (long or short term) to suggest building a “natural immunity” to be the best thing for kids to do. At this time every major scientific publication is still suggesting masks and distancing. If we’re going to ignore the distancing the least we can do is wear a mask.

As more data comes out maybe the general medical consensus will change, but as it stands all data is saying that decreasing precautions to build a natural immunity is not advised. Covid is causing a Kawasaki Disorder like réaction in kids that we don’t even understand yet. Until we get a better grasp on the Pathophysiology of this disease it’s not safe to be pointlessly exposing anyone to it.

 

[FamousxMindset]

I was very uncomfortable seeing new videos of Woodlands Elite stunting last night. Apparently that area is in phase 3 where stunting is permitted, but I still don't think it is the best idea. Most kids don't live in the area that their gym is located so kids are traveling from city to city possibly transmitting the virus.

 

[AndyT_T]

A quick google found this.

State death rates for coronavirus in the US

It’s hard to know the true death rate though because not all mild cases are detected. I thought the true death rate is generally thought to be 1-2%.

Quite a few people (not just old ones) get very sick for a long time and get organ damage etc, so it’s not just about deaths.

Hope you stay healthy Andy!

Exactly. We’ve had a surprising number of people in their 20s/30s who get severe infections and survive, but not before their kidneys fail or they have significant irreversible lung damage. They’re not getting reported as deaths because they survived so the mortality for their age group is low, but they now have the COPD of an 80 year old who smoked a pack a day for 50+ years but they’ve never smoked a day I their life, Covid just wrecked their lungs forever.

So when they die 20 years earlier than they would of due to a lifetime of complications from impaired lung function, will they get reported as a Covid death? Not even then, they’ll get reported as a death from COPD/Chronic Lung Failure. I think we’re severely under reporting how bad this can be for young people as well.

Just because young people aren’t dying doesn’t mean there aren’t young people getting their life changed forever.

(again, bear in mind my perspective is skewed by me only caring for ICU status patients that are intubated and intubated patients have a 70% mortality rate which is CRAZY and completely unheard of. Please look to large professional organizations over just my opinion as they are less likely to fall victim to a perception/confirmation bias)

 

[AndyT_T]

I appreciate and respect your perspective as a medical professional. Another perspective, my ER nurse niece, BIL doctor, and many of their health professional colleagues are asking governors to rethink mask wearing and go back to encouraging social distancing and hand washing as a means of control. NONE of them are saying this virus can't be tragic or debilitating, but what many doctors are sharing in moderately populated areas with government officials on public mask wearing:

The average person is pulling and readjusting their mask often, many are wearing them beneath their nose/mouth, dangling from one ear, etc. Many in very close proximity. It is unreasonable to compare disciplined mask wearing by medical staff in very cold and humidity controlled hospitals to the general population touching and removing them often in much warmer and more humid environments. The warmer it has gotten, the worse the mask wearing discipline and touching has gotten, increasing the potential for higher spread. There is concern with the push to wear masks in learning and in physical activity environments. Depending on temperature and humidity these masks can become very damp and reduce oxygen intake substantially, which is detrimental to learning, exerting energy and heart health.

I can’t speak for other people but currently every major scientific body, epidemiologists, infectious disease groups, etc are still supporting mask wearing. Current evidence based best practice still supports mask wearing and it’s believed high levels of mask usage was a huge contributor in Korea turning things around. I haven’t seen any medical literature that’s suggesting decreasing mask usage at this time.


With something like this, it’s best to trust the opinions in specialists and major organizations over individuals (myself included) because we are all too prone to biase based on our own perspective. I work in a Covid ICU so I have to temper my fear by reading research because I only see the worst of the worst and that skews my perspective.

For Covid, it’s best to look at the recommendations of large professional organizations/medical journals rather than individual health care professionals (again, myself included).

 

[Keep_Believing]

I was very uncomfortable seeing new videos of Woodlands Elite stunting last night. Apparently that area is in phase 3 where stunting is permitted, but I still don't think it is the best idea. Most kids don't live in the area that their gym is located so kids are traveling from city to city possibly transmitting the virus.

They may be one of the few posting, but most gyms are stunting. Beauty shops and nail salons are also open.

The only places in my area that seem to be staying restrictive are nursing homes. It makes me sad because my Mom is in a nursing home. With that said I understand why nursing homes need to stay closed at this time.

 

[cac4life]

I know people are hesitant about stunting and such, but put yourself in the kid's shoes. We have been wanting to stunt since all this craziness started since our season was ripped away from us. Since we couldn't live normal lives anymore. When everything you worked for just stopped when after 3 months. when you finally get to see your friends again, but not being allowed to even have a normal conversation, or hug, high five, etc. We want normal back...we need normal back. How are we ever going to be ready or stay safe if we can't work on our skills?

Also, if the coronavirus is going to go on forever, are we gonna act like this forever? Are we going to put our lives on pause for a year or two, sitting around and waiting for a vaccine? I think not. Its time to get back to normal. There has always been a risk of getting sick when your near other humans.

 

[AndyT_T]

I know people are hesitant about stunting and such, but put yourself in the kid's shoes. We have been wanting to stunt since all this craziness started since our season was ripped away from us. Since we couldn't live normal lives anymore. When everything you worked for just stopped when after 3 months. when you finally get to see your friends again, but not being allowed to even have a normal conversation, or hug, high five, etc. We want normal back...we need normal back. How are we ever going to be ready or stay safe if we can't work on our skills?

Also, if the coronavirus is going to go on forever, are we gonna act like this forever? Are we going to put our lives on pause for a year or two, sitting around and waiting for a vaccine? I think not. Its time to get back to normal. There has always been a risk of getting sick when your near other humans.

Respectfully, there are things more important than cheerleading. This is coming from someone who has cheered consistently since I was 12 and I’m 27 so clearly it’s one of the great loves of my life/passions. I know how much it means to you because it meant that much to me too at your age and still does.

But it’s still just cheerleading. It will be here waiting for you when the world returns to normal. There are times in your life that you have to make sacrifices for the betterment of others. That’s something cheerleading taught me.

 

[cac4life]

Respectfully, there are things more important than cheerleading. This is coming from someone who has cheered consistently since I was 12 and I’m 27 so clearly it’s one of the great loves of my life/passions. I know how much it means to you because it meant that much to me too at your age and still does.

But it’s still just cheerleading. It will be here waiting for you when the world returns to normal. There are times in your life that you have to make sacrifices for the betterment meant of others. That’s something cheerleading taught me.

I get that. I really do. But when you have grown up since age 4 as a gym rat, you have no life outside of cheer. And in brutal honesty, I entered a very severe state of depression during all of this, I get her isn't the whole world..but it's my world and what I live for. And with all respect, I have family professionals in the medical industry, and they have told me that this will never end, and a vaccine could still be 2 years out. So are you suggesting that the world needs to stop for 2 years? Plus, a vaccine is not a cure: you can't force everyone to get the vaccine. Corona will be a real thing for years to come. The gym doesn't close because of flu season every year, and lots of people die cause of the flu. The 1 time I got the flu was at a cheer comp...I just feel like its time to let us stunt and stuff, because we can't keep living life this way.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I am all for gyms opening. With that said making Cheer your whole life is not healthy. Having balance in your life is very important. Cheer can end for many different reasons; injury, unable to afford it, responsibilities take over, etc.

 

[icequeen]

I get that. I really do. But when you have grown up since age 4 as a gym rat, you have no life outside of cheer. And in brutal honesty, I entered a very severe state of depression during all of this, I get her isn't the whole world..but it's my world and what I live for. And with all respect, I have family professionals in the medical industry, and they have told me that this will never end, and a vaccine could still be 2 years out. So are you suggesting that the world needs to stop for 2 years? Plus, a vaccine is not a cure: you can't force everyone to get the vaccine. Corona will be a real thing for years to come. The gym doesn't close because of flu season every year, and lots of people die cause of the flu. The 1 time I got the flu was at a cheer comp...I just feel like its time to let us stunt and stuff, because we can't keep living life this way.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? It is incredibly important to not revolve your life around one thing. There is too much to life and so much more to live for than cheer.

 

[Knowcheering]

I was very uncomfortable seeing new videos of Woodlands Elite stunting last night. Apparently that area is in phase 3 where stunting is permitted, but I still don't think it is the best idea. Most kids don't live in the area that their gym is located so kids are traveling from city to city possibly transmitting the virus.

I noticed that Texas's daily cases have been climbing since they've started reopening. I wish we had more concrete info about how exactly this virus spreads. Who knows if most of these new cases are among the elderly population, or if a lot of young people are passing it to other kids/family members as well. I heard someone claim that children's bodies will generally kill the virus before they can pass it to others, but then there are other doctors who believe the opposite and claim that asymptomatic kids are a major way it spreads. Who knows what to believe. It's frustrating for a sport that relies on high contact among team members, spotters, etc.

The death rate is from the CDC’s data saying nearly 2 million people in the US have been infected and 113,000 people have died. Positive cases by percentage of population tested is not the same as the death rate. Edit to add it’s literally on the CDC website.

The number of people who have been infected in the US is likely much higher than 2 million people, which of course makes the actual death rate a lot lower. Many people who have mild symptoms of illness (or no symptoms at all) never go to a doctor/get tested. When people don't feel well, a lot of them just lay in bed; they don't go through the hassle of waiting in line for a test.

Also, some people are currently doing doctors' visits virtually and are getting diagnosed with Covid-19 through a computer screen, but they never actually get tested, so their positive case never gets added to the total (this happened to my friend last week). So the actual death rate in the US is likely lower than reported. Yes there are also some patients who survived but have long-term damage, but the numbers are likely still very low.

It is kind of alarming, though, how contagious this thing is. We've been cooped up at home for months, and millions of people are still somehow getting infected... But how much does that matter if most of the infected people never get severe symptoms? All of this is a tough call. I guess everyone just has to follow their respective governor's rules (or is supposed to anyway).