Crazy ideas for improving the all-star industry

[BlueCat]

i agree with only one national a year, but i dont think we should combine large and small and if they were they shouldnt be scored the same.[/quote

I don't really like large teams competing against small ones either. I think that a large senior is really more like a large limited than it is like a small senior. You are talking 1-4 athletes different vs. 16 athletes different.

However, there are simply too many divisions, so something has to change, IMO.

 

[King]

Replying to king's repsonse about rotating states/venues for worlds

i think regardless of where "cheer started" if it started in FL,TX,NY,ALASKA. i dont think it really matters where it started the competitors and coaches are going to worlds for one thing and that is to get that worlds ring. not to know where cheer started.

i think it would be a great thing to move worlds kids getting to travel see new places bigger venues.
i think usasf should start doing them at like stadiums/collesiums

I personally think it should be in the Dallas convention center. The hands down best arena for competition and it's centrally located with a good airport.

Worlds comes down to money. They have so many at large bids because that many teams are willing to come to Disney and pay their money to get te chance to compete. Less people will go of the comp is in Cali ao I do not think it would ver get moves there.

 

[King]

As for the lines on the floor they are silly. They don't bother me because they won't help as much as people think. The teams that need all the formation help will either concentrate too much on what rid pattern they are on or get confused as to where they are supposed to be. Teams with good formations practice enough to have a sense of where they are on the floor regardless of lines.

All the chersport videos I have seen with the lines so far have not had any noticeably significant formation improvement.

 

[King]

I think I would also only call out the top 3.

Ehh I like couting down. Builds excitement.

 

[King]

#13 Have "unofficial" results available before awards ceremonies.
I may lose a lot of people on this one, but hear me out. It is incredibly difficult to learn you are in 2nd place at Worlds (or whatever place at whatever event) under the microscope of everyone staring at your team the very moment you find out. Any wrong gesture or expression immediately gets immediately taken as poor sportsmanship. It is much easier on the athlete to learn their scores elsewhere and compose themselves before the awards ceremonies. I hate the "well they should have been happy to be 2nd, I know I would" argument thrown about. Under the current system, the very moment your name is called out is NOT usually pleasant. (If there are only 2 teams left, it is typically a let-down to THEN hear that you are 2nd out of those 2.)

Also, I have found more mistakes in judging than you can imagine. Tabulation errors, scoring out of range, erroneous deductions, etc. Coaches should be able to review their scoresheets before the results are "final", trophies given out, jackets/rings sized, and the lights are turned out. It is usually too late to fix a mistake at that point.

This is a little less exciting for the crowd, but better for the athletes and teams, IMO. I probably won't get much agreement on this one, I know. However, name another sport where you learn your results at the award ceremony.

Any competition with subjective judging is gonna announce at the end. We tend to be one o the most subjective sports so it doesn't surprise me.

Though I do enjoy nca college announcing results on the side.

 

[BlueCat]

"Matrix" score sheet:

(use Varsity Rubric)

_______ x stunt score
_______ x pyramid score
_______ x toss score
_______ x jump score
_______ x run tumb
_______ x stand tumb

etc. . ..

Event producers put their own "multipliers" in the blanks. (For arguments sake, they have 100 points to divide out among all the categories.)

NCA's may be 10, 10, 10, 10, etc..
CheerSport may be 12, 8, 8, 15, etc.

Take whatever is left - add it up and convert it to a 10 point scale.


Pros: Judges do the exact same thing every week, regardless (Their part wouldn't change at all from week to week). Event producers control weighting based on their customer base. Final score makes sense to the crowd. (everyone understands 0-10.)

Cons: Math (a little) trickier. Not easy to explain. Still not technically "universal" (my first choice).

 

[King]

I also think the number of people you have by the number of stunts or baskets should give you a difficulty multiplier. For a small senior team if you have 20 people putting up 5 stunts you multiply the final stunt score by 1. If 20 people putting up 4 stunt then multiply your final stunt score by .95. If 3 stunts then .8.

Apply the same technique to any category.

 

[FRESH]

i agree with the coed divisions. i honestly dont pay attention to semi coed just cuz its almost like unlimited but with more girls, and it looks like a mess to me even if the routine is super clean. i already like the proportions of small all girl, large all girl, small limited coed, int coed 5 & 6 and unlimited coed. im not saying its wrong but i just dont like the way large limited coed and semi large coed look routine wise. its like a size "smedium" (the size between small and medium that doesnt exist) for a tshirt, just doesnt look or fit right for me personally.

I think there should be a cut of senior teams at worlds and more junior and a youth division. we had A LOT of really good youth level 5 teams, and its probably my favorite division to watch, it stinks that they're "worlds" is at NCA Dallas

and i never go to cali so it would be awesome to have a reason to go!

 

[BlueCat]

I also think the number of people you have by the number of stunts or baskets should give you a difficulty multiplier. For a small senior team if you have 20 people putting up 5 stunts you multiply the final stunt score by 1. If 20 people putting up 4 stunt then multiply your final stunt score by .95. If 3 stunts then .8.

Apply the same technique to any category.

I like this idea. (referring to senior L5 teams from here on out). It frustrates me, for example, to see small L5 teams put up 4 stunts and seemingly not get just punished on the scoresheet for this. If they aren't going to significantly reward teams for putting up the "standard" # of stunts (# on team / 4), then it gets to the point where it isn't worth the risk to put up that many. You want to do what the crowd and the athletes want (lots of stunts), but at some point, if they aren't rewarding that difficulty on the scoresheets, it is an unwise coaching decision to leave them in. The risk isn't worth the reward. They need to "up" the reward in this case.

 

[cheermommaRN]

I would love standardized scoring! It seems like one competition rewards clean but then the next rewards "risk taking". It becomes very confusing even when you know the rules. I believe that if a team goes out and hits their routine clean they should score higher then a team that goes out and does elite stunts they aren't ready for and drops them.
I wish there was a way to bring the cost down....I pay more for cheer then I did for competitive gymnastics and the only thing I can think of is that insurance for a cheer program is higher then gymnastics.
No more flea market vendors at comps!!! This is my biggest pet peeve, when I walk into an event and the whole concourse is back to back junk...light up toys and candy. Half the stuff I can go home and order online for half the price.
Allow double backs and triple fulls for the higher level senior coed teams...that's what makes people ohh and ahh.
Completely agree with moving Worlds back and forth....if you want to keep it a competitive market move it between FL and TX.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I also think the number of people you have by the number of stunts or baskets should give you a difficulty multiplier. For a small senior team if you have 20 people putting up 5 stunts you multiply the final stunt score by 1. If 20 people putting up 4 stunt then multiply your final stunt score by .95. If 3 stunts then .8.

Apply the same technique to any category.

Have you looked at the JAM Brands scoring info. The stunt portion of their scoresheet is split into Difficulty, Technique, Load-Ins/Dismounts/Release Moves, and Quantity. Each is worth 10 points and the Quantity score is the closest to what you said above. It's not a multiplier, but you get rewarded for putting up more stunts and you have to use fewer than 3 people per stunt group to get a 10.

 

[hiyoe6]

I agree with most everything being said hear especially the coed divisions. Why are there so fewer males in cheerleading but more coed divisions. It doesn't make sense to me. I like the international divisions because of the girl to guy ratio. I don't want to see "large" coed teams with 15 guys and 20 girls. I agree with small coed being 6 especially if its a large team and I also agree with large teams should compete against other large teams not all girl vs coed (aka like MD Reign vs Rays Orange and F5 vs Rays Smoke).

 

[Rudags]

i definitely do NOT want fewer teams at worlds, thats just boring

No sir. Whats boring is watching teams that look like hell and arent ready for Worlds. If I wanted to see tons of layouts and half squads jumps to back, I would go watch Level 4. There are more then a few teams that dont deserve to be at worlds, but that is a whole other can of worms.

 

[CheerKatie08]

2. Standardized scoresheet/score system While you are at it, make scores more closely reflect what the athletes want to work on and what the audience wants to see. Option: Let each event producer put their own "multiplier" in front of each category score to "weight" them however they feel is appropriate.

I need to learn how to read before posting... but I like this. a lot

 

[cheeritup]

this is why we need standardization and rules/divisions set - it isn't fair that small teams have to go against large teams at any competition - just the creativity etc is never scored the same - EVER. See the link for the Atlanta NCA comp this weekend - it is more like a stingrays exhibition - i feel sorry for all of the other small teams going :)
http://www.nca.varsity.com/pdfs/atlanta_po.pdf