All-Star Crossovers Just To Get Paid

[AScheer]

If they wanted to fix Worlds and Summit they could. Simply put 85% of the origianal team small who won the bid must compete at the event. On large teams make the number 9o to 95%. As far as Summit goes I believe they allow you to cross over on 3 teams, make that 2 and count Worlds as a performance. It's a simple fix but it won't happen because it costs EP $$$

We still have the issue though of name changes that someone else brought up. If Susie Smith from a world famous large senior team competes with lesser known medium senior team under a false name, then how is the USASF to know that it was a different kid that earned the bid than is on the roster? Even if you say no substitutions to the roster, how does the USASF know everyone is who they say they are? The names may not change, but the kids still do. Until you have some type of registration ID system in place, this can't be avoided. Even then I'm sure someone will find a way around it.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Not all divisions have the prelims finals semis- did MAG/MedCo have it last year? I know Smalls and Internationals do (although Int'l is a whole other animal: considering it's still 3 per country).

Yes they did.

 

[Tina]

Y'all, at the end of the day, a gym owner runs a business. Setting the moral compass aside, business owners do what's best for their customers and their potential clientele. As a parent of a kid on the "other" team, I probably wouldn't be mad at athletes being used for a comp or two to get my athlete to Disney without me having to foot the bill. That's who the owner has loyalty to, not the other team who could've gotten the bid.

ETA: I will add that I don't agree with it and that I watched some "questionable scoring" in favor of the non-crossover team, earlier this season. I believe the judges knew what we know and purposely didn't count some skills, just to prove a point. JMO...but the non-crossover team ended up with the FP that comp, so...

I don't agree with this...I would rather go to Disney with the team we had from day 1....and win or loose its a team :)

 

[Tina]

Ethics are a matter of opinion. Is it ok for 70% of a level 4 team to be made up of level 5 athletes just to win all season? Is it ok for a level 1 team to have 100% of their athletes able to stunt and tumble with level 4 skills just win all season? Go outside of cheerleading. Is it ok for a coach to use half of his Varsity starting line up to win a JV game? Some will say it is fine because it is not against the rules. Some will say it is unethical. Personally speaking, this is a competitive sport, which means you use every competitive advantage you can get within the rules to win. I can't see any of it being unethical if it is within the rules, but I 100% feel the rules are unfair.

I wouldn't mind my CP crossing one level as she does now, but honestly if she was a solid level 5 I would not want to pay for her to cross to a 2 or even if she was a solid 4 and cross to a 1.... this sport is $$$$ I'd prefer to keep her on a team where her skills are.... Also, being a football mom ad well that is not allowed, you can't play even half of a varsity game and then all of a jv game... you are allowed to get a few plays maybe 5 or so and still play JV, this is done for the exact opposite reason of what you are saying and to keep it fair ;)

 

[quitthedrama]

I wouldn't mind my CP crossing one level as she does now, but honestly if she was a solid level 5 I would not want to pay for her to cross to a 2 or even if she was a solid 4 and cross to a 1.... this sport is $$$$ I'd prefer to keep her on a team where her skills are.... Also, being a football mom ad well that is not allowed, you can't play even half of a varsity game and then all of a jv game... you are allowed to get a few plays maybe 5 or so and still play JV, this is done for the exact opposite reason of what you are saying and to keep it fair ;)

I understand people have different opinions and that is fine. I think calling a gym unethical for doing something within the rules is where I have an issue.
I do understand the rules with football, but I have seen schools with a weak Varsity opponent play their second string for that game and load their Varsity starters on the JV game instead. Just trying to point out ways all teams in all sports try to gain a competitive advantage.

"You are only responsible for being honest, not for someone else's reaction to your honesty."

 

[12stepCheermom]

We still have the issue though of name changes that someone else brought up. If Susie Smith from a world famous large senior team competes with lesser known medium senior team under a false name, then how is the USASF to know that it was a different kid that earned the bid than is on the roster? Even if you say no substitutions to the roster, how does the USASF know everyone is who they say they are? The names may not change, but the kids still do. Until you have some type of registration ID system in place, this can't be avoided. Even then I'm sure someone will find a way around it.

This is why I think the ID thing they're trying at worlds this year is a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but if it can work there maybe it can be implemented on a wider scale.


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[SL&AM]

We still have the issue though of name changes that someone else brought up. If Susie Smith from a world famous large senior team competes with lesser known medium senior team under a false name, then how is the USASF to know that it was a different kid that earned the bid than is on the roster? Even if you say no substitutions to the roster, how does the USASF know everyone is who they say they are? The names may not change, but the kids still do. Until you have some type of registration ID system in place, this can't be avoided. Even then I'm sure someone will find a way around it.

When I signed CP up with USASF this season they verified her actual birth certificate and photo. If they really wanted to b*tches about it they could say a birth certificate isn't good enough and accept passports only since that has your name and picture on the same document.

 

[tdittmar]

I don't even think a complicated retinal scan/DNA type system is needed. My youngest plays travel softball. Before each tournament the team registers and checks in. The officials have the team roster and each athlete shows her state issued ID. They cross check, ask them their birth dates and the whole thing takes about 3 minutes. Of course, anyone could play for someone else after that just like in cheer but people cheat in professional sports. I don't think there is a way to eliminate it all.


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[Helen uk uni cheer]

This is why I think the ID thing they're trying at worlds this year is a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but if it can work there maybe it can be implemented on a wider scale.


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One EP I know in the uk has ID cards that you have to prove who you are with a passport to get ID card. You can still has crossovers but they must have a ID card with the sticker for that comp on it

 

[catlady]

My hopes are, one day, the small gym division will allow for NCA crossover rules across the board in the large gym division. I don't really believe there is a need for high tech identification equipment, it doesn't seem to be an issue at NCA.

We can continue to put lipstick on a pig but, IMO when it comes to things such as Stay to Play, adults have the choice whether or not they want to pull their child from an activity. As adults and consumers, we are not abused in this industry, we choose to participate. When adults, however, decide to use loopholes to specifically create teams they know are not going to be the same at the bid event, specifically to get the bid, that is a conscious decision to put their business strategy over children. If I sell you a $300,000 Bentley and then put a $30,000 GMC engine in it because, nothing says I can't, you are going to feel taken advantage of and scream "unethical". Kids deserve better than this, I don't care who or what gyms do this, it's wrong.

 

[ijustpay]

The more I think about this the more appalled I get.

We ALL know that the intent of USASF with the bid system is to have the team that earns the bid be the team that takes the mat at Worlds. The reason there is no rule against what we are talking about is because it would be very very difficult to come up with one that would still be fair and allow for unforeseen circumstances (injuries, quitting, tumbling blocks etc). If you put "X" amount of athletes out on the floor for a bid comp KNOWING they will not compete at Worlds it is wrong, it is fraud. Plain and simple...no it's not against the rules, there are gray areas with rules. However, it is morally wrong....there is no gray area with right and wrong. It's either right or wrong, any preschooler can tell you that.

The scary part in all of this is the number of adults that are doing it and those justifying it for whatever reason. A team that can't afford to go on an at large bid came up. I'm sorry but this is not justification for doing something that is wrong. Why would a team/athlete think they have any more right to that bid than someone else? As a kid I missed out on opportunities that other kids had because my parents didn't have the money. Guess what? It made me strive to always work harder so that wouldn't be an issue when I had my own children. I wonder where I'd be today if someone told me, "It's ok for you do something that is morally questionable because you can't afford it" and just handed me whatever it was that I wanted? All teams have about 12 months to ensure they can afford to go to Worlds and can fundraise, work extra shifts, whatever is needed. I already see so many kids/young adults today that have entitled attitudes. Most know nothing about working hard to get what they want because there are so many adults surrounding them enforcing the notion that they shouldn't have to miss out on anything because of their circumstances. Fact of the matter is that just because you DO work hard it doesn't mean you are going to get what you want...that's life! It's really frightening to think what this generation of kids (people with little moral fiber and drive) are going to be like as adults.

That is all...really those of you that want to see both sides and/or justify what's happening really ought to give it another thought!

 

[Sparkle Mom]

I wouldn't mind my CP crossing one level as she does now, but honestly if she was a solid level 5 I would not want to pay for her to cross to a 2 or even if she was a solid 4 and cross to a 1.... this sport is $$$$ I'd prefer to keep her on a team where her skills are.... Also, being a football mom ad well that is not allowed, you can't play even half of a varsity game and then all of a jv game... you are allowed to get a few plays maybe 5 or so and still play JV, this is done for the exact opposite reason of what you are saying and to keep it fair ;)

In my experience you do not pay when you cross down. Some of the gyms mentioned do not charge if they ask athletes to cross down to another team. But some parents would probably still pay if there was a chance of a ring at summit or jacket, etc.

 

[crazzyeyesassypants]

In my experience you do not pay when you cross down. Some of the gyms mentioned do not charge if they ask athletes to cross down to another team. But some parents would probably still pay if there was a chance of a ring at summit or jacket, etc.

Really? All the gyms around our area you have to pay if you cross over. Who expected to pay for the athletes cross over fees if the parents don't pay? At our gym the only time you don't pay if it's a last minute fill in but if you cross over all season then you have to pay.


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[3amigosmom]

Some say we can't fix the problem because if you attach an athlete's name to a bid, people will just switch kids and pretend to be a different athlete. While it is true some will blatently cheat and do that, it does get past the gray ethical area of "It isn't against the rules so it is ok." A lot of teams and parents won't do this because it is against the rules.

 

[Cheermom1969]

Some say we can't fix the problem because if you attach an athlete's name to a bid, people will just switch kids and pretend to be a different athlete. While it is true some will blatently cheat and do that, it does get past the gray ethical area of "It isn't against the rules so it is ok." A lot of teams and parents won't do this because it is against the rules.

And cheer is such a small world at times. A few may get away with it but with videos/youtube and kids knowing exactly who is on which team, I would think it would be a real crapshoot to try and do a bait and switch.