All-Star Crossovers Just To Get Paid

[SL&AM]

The ethics are definitely questionable, but what's even more troubling to me is the parents who have no issue with this. Do these parents want their kids to go to World's or the Summit so badly that they're willing to let a coach tell their child they're second rate until they get to the big day? Personally, I can't imagine chasing a ring or a jacket that badly and while my CP is no where near senior level in age alone, I just can't even see myself allowing her to be on a team where this is common practice.

 

[Mamarazzi]

But what does that say to the original athletes on that team? "Yeah, you guys aren't good enough to get a bid on your own so we're going to add athlete x's to get it for you." No thank you! From my perspective as a parent I think that sucks and isn't a lesson I want my kid to learn.

Yes, that's exactly what it says, however, the team gets to go to Worlds. I'm thinking most of them would gladly accept the invite and quickly dismiss the insult.
Don't think from the outside, think from a 16-year-old, Worlds-envious, POV. I've heard "I don't care if I had to nugget on a Day 1 team only, I just want to be there," more times than I can count.

 

[f5forever]

Personally, I'd rather know I'm competitive and make it on my own merit (no crossover "helpers"), than use them to get a bid and waste my money going to worlds with no chance to win....or in some cases even make it to finals. I understand that crossovers happen (and I've stated before that I don't like it except in cases where it is the only option), but having 1/2 (or even a 1/4) a team of crossovers seems ridiculous. Perhaps the coaches/gym owners should reevaluate the team's level. I've said it before and I'll say it again: not everyone can be on a world's team, and EVERYONE CAN'T WIN....SOMEONE HAS TO LOSE. WELCOME TO LIFE.

 

[catlady]

I'm going to agree to disagree with putting all the blame on EP's on this one. Crossovers are a necessity in small gyms, which is why I am all about having a small gym division so they can rein in the crossover rule on larger gyms. Society allows for all kinds of loop holes but, ultimately the decision comes down to right and wrong and that's a personal choice. Sure parents aren't going to mind when it's a free ride versus at large but, does that make it right? No. The only way to be competitive? No. Not all gyms do this.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

EPs make $$$ on crossover fees

But they're actually making less, because an athlete crossing over pays less than a separate athlete competing only that one time.

I'd say the bigger issue (and harder to enforce and therefore not likely to ever stop) is that a lot of these athletes aren't rostered as crossovers, or even under their name.

Coach says, "Ooooh, this is such a good idea. I'm going to send 15 of my large senior girls to a comp with 5 other girls to get another paid - but the EP doesn't actually know who any of these kids are. Not like they need ID to compete. I'll make a roster of these other kids that want to get to worlds, and then we'll go get them a paid bid. That way when worlds comes, it looks like it's the same 20 kids that got the bid and I don't have to worry about the 10 substitution rule!"

Moral compass indeed. Not a thing I see a lot of in cheer.

(yes, there are parents that would go for this. Probably parents who don't know about the rostering and/or want to go to worlds on a paid not an at-large)

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Yes, that's exactly what it says, however, the team gets to go to Worlds. I'm thinking most of them would gladly accept the invite and quickly dismiss the insult.
Don't think from the outside, think from a 16-year-old, Worlds-envious, POV. I've heard "I don't care if I had to nugget on a Day 1 team only, I just want to be there," more times than I can count.

YES. There are plenty of R5 or other kids who would saw off a limb if it meant taking the mat with their gym's (example) Large Senior team even if it's just once.

 

[Tator tots]

Yes, that's exactly what it says, however, the team gets to go to Worlds. I'm thinking most of them would gladly accept the invite and quickly dismiss the insult.
Don't think from the outside, think from a 16-year-old, Worlds-envious, POV. I've heard "I don't care if I had to nugget on a Day 1 team only, I just want to be there," more times than I can count.

Think of it from the inside of those 20-36, 12-18 year olds who just got beat by a team of crossovers who won't even be on the mat competing for that team at Worlds.

 

[Mamarazzi]

Think of it from the inside of those 20-36, 12-18 year olds who just got beat by a team of crossovers who won't even be on the mat competing for that team at Worlds.

Since you don't know me or what I've experienced, nor from which side I've experienced it, don't think I haven't thought about it from BOTH sides.

 

[Fiercecheermom]

Agreed, but none of these teams are breaking the rules. I don't agree with the system at all, but I no longer blame gyms for it. USASF allows it, EPs make $$$ on crossover fees - if I am going to call anyone corrupt and unethical, it won't be the gyms.

I agree they aren't breaking the rules, but IMO the rules are the issue because when this "team" (for that day) competes, they know that they are not going to compete "as that team" at Worlds. Again, IMO, they are taking money from legitimate teams that have the intention of competing AS THAT TEAM. If you are getting a bid for a certain event, then the rules for that event should apply when obtaining the bid. Not throwing shade at ANYONE, but I do know that at the end of the day, I am raising a child. I want her to have a good moral compass. I want her to understand that even if it isn't against the "rules", it is unethical and not necessarily, "morally" right. Again, just my opinion, and until the EP's and the USASF make the changes, we will see this happen...hopefully not any more often than we do now.

 

[Tator tots]

Since you don't know me or what I've experienced, nor from which side I've experienced it, don't think I haven't thought about it from BOTH sides.

Its true, I don't know what you've experienced and since this is the first time you've stated it in this thread that you've experienced BOTH sides, I guess when you're on the "winning" side, it's okay?

 

[ijustpay]

Bringing the moral compass back into the equation, it seems quite a bit close to fraud.

I agree. It is like sending someone else in to take your SATs for you because you know you can't score high enough to get into the college you want to go to.

 

[ijustpay]

Yes, that's exactly what it says, however, the team gets to go to Worlds. I'm thinking most of them would gladly accept the invite and quickly dismiss the insult.
Don't think from the outside, think from a 16-year-old, Worlds-envious, POV. I've heard "I don't care if I had to nugget on a Day 1 team only, I just want to be there," more times than I can count.

I hear you but they could go with an at large bid, no? The team I know of that's doing it this year already had at larges for both teams. I'm actually really disgusted by the lack of moral compass shown when this question is raised. I'm thankful my daughter is at a gym that would never do this. The fact that so many blow at off as "not against the rules" is kind of gross. Fact of the matter is gyms are putting kids out there that they know will not be competing at Worlds and taking bids from real teams.

 

[jennarap]

If you believe your only chances of getting paid are to stack your team with crossovers from a better team with higher skills then you probably don't deserve that bid. just my opinion

 

[SL&AM]

Honestly, I don't blame the EPs or even the coaches from the gyms doing this. It's technically good business practice if enough people are willing to allow it and it'll continue to funnel money into their program. I'm not even sure I fault USASF because Lord knows there are other things they should be regulating and not---and seeing what a small gym is up against, I'm not completely against crossovers. At the end of this argument, I blame the parents. It's their child, it's their money, and ultimately their decision to the example they want set. There is a reason why teenagers aren't adults just yet; perhaps they need to be surrounded by people with better guidance.

 

[Mamarazzi]

Its true, I don't know what you've experienced and since this is the first time you've stated it in this thread that you've experienced BOTH sides, I guess when you're on the "winning" side, it's okay?

Not saying it's "OK." Trying to interject some bilateral thinking. The winning side has their reasons, the least of which has anything to do with the feelings of the other side.