All-Star Cuts From A Large All Star Program That Claims To Be No Cut

[CGAcheer]

we try our best not to cut people, but there are on occasion people who just are no where close to fitting on any of our teams.

Last year our youngest team was a Youth team and we had a 4 year old wanting to cheer, Very talented for a 4 year old, but she had the attention span of a 4 year old. So we told them to wait out a year and take tumbling classes. She still has a minimal attention span but can keep up for the most part with our mini team this year.

This year, we had a 16 year old who couldn't do a cartwheel to save her life and had a bit of a frustrating to work with personality. Our only Senior team is a very strong level 3 team, I can't give the no cartwheel 16 year old the spot over a 14 year old with a speciality through to tuck.

So we don't advertise that we are no cut, but when asked if everyone makes it, we do say that it takes an extremely unique circumstance for someone not to make a team.

 

[cheer25mom]

I don't think a child who really tries should be cut at a mini or tiny level once they have been placed on a team. A child who is a constant major disruption or a safety risk is a different story. I do however think it is ok to say at evals that you just do not have a team for a child with a particular skill set, or that you don't feel a small child is ready for allstars. Our gym doesn't have Senior 1 or Senior 2 some years, and you cannot put an older girl with no tumbling or stunting on a senior 3, and we have a tiny prep and mini prep program for girls that are just not ready for 2 hours of focus in an allstar practice.

 

[newcheerdad]

If we're talking about a competitive all-star team, then I think it's reasonable to suggest that a child who's struggling to keep up should perhaps be on a different team. Even with younger kids. It doesn't happen a lot, but I know we've asked kids who tried out for mini or youth all-star teams to spend a year on a lower level team first because they simply weren't ready.

Our gym is fortunate in the sense that we have multiple tiers of teams (all-star, rec, non-competitive) and there's a spot for everyone.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

This isn't for my daughter and I didn't write the original post. My CP is 15 and is on a small sr. 5 team. But, your suggestions are excellent ones.

Gotcha, NP :)

I hope so, bc I really think aside from the exceptions I listed (refusal to participate, not listening, being mean, etc.) that if a child is willing and actively trying to participate, but just isn't catching on as fast as the others, that there should be something that can be worked out with regards to allowing the child to continue with the program in some way. We don't cut either btw...I was just answering from a personal opinion based on what I've seen from a handful of people (parents and kids) the past two years.

Not being passive agressive. I wasn't just talking about you, there are people above you who I was directing my points as well. I just don't see why a tiny and mini team can't be fun. Just fun. They are going to learn already, and at that age you can only ask so much of them. Every program is different, but I would just keep in mind that for the majority of tinys and minis...you're not in it for the jackets. You're most likely in it to have fun, and learn to cheer. I see what you're saying though too. I guess it all just depends on what you want out of it.

Sorry, I apologize then...I was attempting to make light of it by making a joke out of it bc I thought you were, so I apologize. I definitely think it should be a fun experience for kids that age, bc the idea is to enjoy the sport, not loathe it bc you feel like you aren't good enough. Most kids that age still want to win (even though it's not to the degree as the older and more competitive divisions) and like I said before, I don't think someone should get cut at that age just for the sake of always winning....I was really referring to the kids who aren't prepared maturity wise, or the ones who always act up, don't listen, won't participate during practices, etc. I am a parent of a Tiny/Mini and I know they all act up from time to time, so I'm not just talking about those things in a general sense. I'm referring to them in a habitual sense.

I don't think a child who really tries should be cut at a mini or tiny level once they have been placed on a team. A child who is a constant major disruption or a safety risk is a different story. I do however think it is ok to say at evals that you just do not have a team for a child with a particular skill set, or that you don't feel a small child is ready for allstars. Our gym doesn't have Senior 1 or Senior 2 some years, and you cannot put an older girl with no tumbling or stunting on a senior 3, and we have a tiny prep and mini prep program for girls that are just not ready for 2 hours of focus in an allstar practice.

Excellent post..I definitely agree. That's exactly one of the things I was talking about as an alternative (the prep teams for the ones who aren't ready). Unfortunately I don't know how many gyms offer that sort of program, so I hope the parent in this thread w/the concern will check around and see if that's an available option.

 

[Underestimated]

why cut when you can always nugget.... Just saying! HA

 

[MissBee]

why cut when you can always nugget.... Just saying! HA

This should be a tshirt.

Thinking about this situation:
Must be nice, in this economy, to be doing such great business that you can turn away paying customers!

 

[kristenthegreat]

Our Tinys and Minys go to all of the same competitions that the rest of our Level 1-4 teams go to, even NCA.

INTERESTING. Now- how many of those competitions would you say are 'local?' Meaning- less than an hour-2hours drive? I only ask because the concentration of Georgia competitions is larger than the concentration of Northeast Competitions- many of which are in another state/require overnight stay. (Ahh, the joys of living in a moderate cheer desert lol). I'm just trying to get a feel for the situation of a 'big' program vs programs I'm familiar with.

@kingston wanna chime in? Didn't your wife coach minis?

 

[Mamarazzi]

I think a parent that places their 3-5 year-old on a Tiny team that actually competes takes all the risks of "competition" with it. If the parent was told there would not be cuts, but their child gets cut, that's not fair. If the child was asked to leave because of lack of focus, immaturity, whatever, I don't consider that a cut.
No Tiny team should compete. They should all be exhibition. Let them learn to love the performance before they have to learn to suck up a loss. JMO.

 

[cheerinfo]

INTERESTING. Now- how many of those competitions would you say are 'local?' Meaning- less than an hour-2hours drive? I only ask because the concentration of Georgia competitions is larger than the concentration of Northeast Competitions- many of which are in another state/require overnight stay. (Ahh, the joys of living in a moderate cheer desert lol). I'm just trying to get a feel for the situation of a 'big' program vs programs I'm familiar with.

@kingston wanna chime in? Didn't your wife coach minis?

I can tell you that other than Worlds, Stingrays brings their tiny and mini teams to all the same events. The only exception of regular season events that they don't go to is UCA...level 5 go there, levels 1-4 go to Spirit Sports in Myrtle Beach. So the tiny and mini teams go to NCA, Cheersport, Athletic Championships in TN, BUTBT, etc. Just because Atlanta happens to host a TON of large events doesn't mean that they are less important. But they do go to NCA (overnight), Spirit Sports (overnight) and Athletic in TN (overnight). Same amount of overnight stay competitions as all the other teams (except for Worlds obviously). I can honestly say that Stingrays treats all their teams from Tiny Level 1 to Sr Coed 5 the same way. And the coaches are NOT easy on the younger or lower level teams either. They teach them from the very get go how to be tight, how to focus, how to jump, etc. Not saying Stingrays cuts kids, there is a team for all ages/levels, but they do expect EVERY team to look polished, tight and focused. I think they do a pretty darn good job at it as well. I believe the Tiny Level 1 team won everywhere last year except one event. So they do expect their teams, ALL their teams, to be COMPETITIVE. Not saying their mentality is for everyone...but personally, I love how they treat all their teams equally and take the entire program to NCA, Cheersport, etc. JMO though....

 

[King]

The problem is in this situation from the outside looking in the 'headline' looks awful. Gym cuts 4 year olds from cheerleading team because they weren't good enough.

But watching my wife coach Mini's for the past few years and talking to her a bunch I could probably write a novel on the subject.

First, there are absolutely reasons that a 4 year old for a team. Being on time with their jumps is not a reason... but usually parents see a kid cut and assume it is something as silly as that. While I do not know ANYTHING about this gym and situation referenced in the post I would assume that the child was having a negative impact on the team. They were having to spend extra time with her to know her spot, or she was hyper and ADD and required a lot of discipline, or maybe her parent was the problem. It is NOT fun to do but there have been times we have had to remove kids from teams because their parent was the issue (if my actions ever caused Livi to be removed from an activity she loved I would be horrified at myself). In an economy where ever athlete helps run the gym I am going to err on the side of the gym on this one and say there was probably a good reason. Until I know what exactly happened though, from a coach of that team, I cannot really make a judgement.

Second, being competitive at that age is completely reasonable. I personally wish there was no tiny's division (I think making kids wait until 5 or 6 is a good thing) but as long as the division is there going and being competitive in it is great. Expectign your kids to do the best they possibly can, even at age 4, is not a bad thing. Kids like challenges (and in general everyone does). They like something to be difficult and try and overcome it. And its not even bad if they have the risk of failure. Now how that is approached sometimes by coaches (and parents... parents can be the worst at this) is not healthy. But that does not make the act of competing bad.

Third, we hang all our banners at the same height no matter the division. Currently green has some of my wife's original peppermints (from the first one). And they tend to be the most talented and consistent on the team. So the focus of importance of all levels does pay off in more ways than just Tiny and Mini banners.

Fourth, whenever you are starting a business you have to make a decision if there is a market to support what you are doing. If all the Rays staff moved to the middle of the mojave desert that does not mean in 5 years the Mojave allstars would be dominating. So if a gym is in an area with no competition... or has to travel to all it's competitions that is where the gym owner decided to open so that is the obstacles of their business.

 

[LastPass]

Thank goodness they didn't make cuts when my CP was on Tinys (even Minis), because she would have been one of the first ones to go. She cried at every practice and required A LOT of personal attention from the coaches. One of the other parents even told me she didn't think my CP had the "mental capacity" to be on the team and the attention she was getting wasn't fair to the other kids. Thankfully the owners and coaches believed in giving everyone a chance, because she just turned 7 and is now on a Level 5 team.

Even though my kid was once the one that all the other parents wanted to kick off the team, there have been times when even I've caught myself thinking how much better our Mini team might be if we didn't have kid X, Y, or Z. It's hard to commit all that time and pay all that money and not want your child's team to be the best (even Minis and Tinys). But IMO, a good coach can find a way to make even the most unskilled, unaware kid fit in (and without having to make them nugget). The past two years we had a child with severe learning disabilities on our Mini team who was definitely disruptive and could barely do a cartwheel, but watching the routine, most people would never have been able to point her out. It was really a testament to the strength of the coaches. Not only did they make it work, but they gave a kid a chance that probably wasn't getting many of them in other areas of her life. I think there's a lot to be said for that.

 

[fullpass]

I like to think that anyone who runs a tiny program would not be cutting to make a team more competitive. However, if the situation arose where a the parent was more interested than the child or the child was so unable to pay attention/participate that it created a dangerous situation (they might be tumbled into or something) then I can understand. . .

 

[hopskipandjump]

I coach minis. I own a gym. And I flat out told at least 2 parents that their child was not ready for all star cheer. Some children are not ready. I love kids and frankly when you are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, you should be having fun. Our kids love it. But some children just want to run around. I like to think I have a lot of patience with little people, but I can't understand why parents would want me to have to spend an extra 20 minutes on their child because they can't stand still since they are just not ready. I mean, it's expensive. Why would you want to spend money like that when instead you could put your child in tumbling lessons, horse riding, or just taking them to the park??? Not doing tiny or mini cheer does not put your child behind the 8 ball of cheerleading btw. Some of the best cheerleaders come later to the sport. Mainly because they suffered through stuff they didn't want to do when they were 4.

 

[CoachTamara]

I coach minis. I own a gym. And I flat out told at least 2 parents that their child was not ready for all star cheer. Some children are not ready. I love kids and frankly when you are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, you should be having fun.

AMEN. I just took over ownership of a gym and had to turn a tiny away because they simply were not ready, which as a new owner kills me. We have a no cut policy under normal circumstances, but practice was spent totally focused on her, trying to just get her to stretch. It usually ended up with her running out of the gym crying and screaming, with one coach going after her. It was a nightmare. Truthfully, she was a talented kid for her age, and I have no doubt she will be a great cheerleader, but she is practically a baby. She just wasn't ready to focus, and the difference between tots class and an actual team is a huge jump. Some kids just cannot do it, and I don't think they are missing out on anything. She doesn't even realize she's missing out at this point, and tots class is just as fun as anything else she could be doing.

 

[F!ERCE]

Are we talking cuts due to skills? Or cuts due to behavior/personality issues? Very different issues...the former, in my opinion, shouldn't exist at low level, low age teams. The latter, perhaps.