All-Star Discriminatory Law In Indiana

[FlexyTumblerMom]

If Indiana wants to make these laws that are essentially intended to discriminate against gays, I'd have no problem w/ the cheer industry pulling out of Indianapolis-based events in protest.

I agree that if your religious beliefs affect you so much you can't do business w/ people who don't share them, maybe you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

 

[catlady]

Not about the law but, in these cases I think appropriate....

 

[dawgshow]

I think they're already back peddling. GOP leaders in the state assembly are supposed to be trying to "clarify" today that the law wouldn't allow discrimination of lgbt people. I watched George Stephanopoulos rake the governor over the coals yesterday. He refused to give him a straight answer. Made him look like an idiot.

Tim Cook has spoken out against it and Angie's List has cancelled a 40 million expansion in the state. It doesn't sound like most of the businesses want it. I think they're trying to get a handle on things before the Final Four rolls in.

He is an idiot. For many reasons.
Regardless, I have to point out that while this law may allow a business to refuse service to a gay couple based on religious beliefs, it also will allow a business who's owner follows a religion that calls for the unconditional acceptance of all walks of life to refuse to screen print tshirts that say "Rot in Hell, Fags" or a conservative (insert non Christian religion here) photographer that believes in modesty the right to refuse to shoot a bikini calendar. Yet somehow the media didn't point that out.


The fact that people really think that businesses are going to refuse service such as food or shelter strictly based on sexual orientation dumbfounds me. Will we see an occasional bubba try? Sure, but he had that right before the law was in place and hopefully if he's foolish enough to do it customers will talk with their money AFTER IT HAPPENS.


Edit to add: 99% of the state is calling for Pence's head (among other body parts) to amend this law to put it in line with all of the other states' laws. This includes most of the corporate leaders, the mayors of the major (and minor) cities, and most of the rationally thinking movers and shakers.

 

[Twinklestars]

Personally, if your 'deeply held religious beliefs' so often and so strongly affect your ability to do business, maybe you shouldn't be doing business. You don't want to make a floral arrangement for a gay wedding, but you'll do one for a second marriage? Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

My oldest and I discussed this same issue in regards to all of the Christian hypocrites here in the rural south.

 

[SkyBlue]

Not going to lie, I'd have issues making signs or t-shirts for Westboro Baptist or the KKK. It makes me sad because on one hand you have organizations or individuals that are spreading hate of which I would not want to serve, and on the other, you have individuals that just want to love another individual. Our laws, unfortunately, don't allow for common sense. Case and point the woman who had her fetus cut out of her womb and the individual won't be charged with murder because, in the state of Colorado, abortions are allowed up until 26 weeks because it is considered a zygote up until that time.

This is not accurate as to the woman who was attacked and had her fetus cut from her womb. The reason he was not charged with murder has nothing to do with abortion. It has to do with the law that a fetus is not considered a person unless the fetus can survive outside the womb.

 

[Deleted member 15795]

This is not accurate as to the woman who was attacked and had her fetus cut from her womb. The reason he was not charged with murder has nothing to do with abortion. It has to do with the law that a fetus is not considered a person unless the fetus can survive outside the womb.

not true, a 26wk baby can survive outside the mother (if not hacked from her murderously) but this baby was ruled to have been born dead (edited cause I had to double check where 26 weeks came from… This incident was an 8months pregnant woman)

Coroner: Baby Cut From Colorado Mother's Womb Not Born Alive - ABC News

re: the original post- I still have a hard time understanding why gay rights "infringe" on someone else's religious freedom. Now back to the parent section ;)

 

[SkyBlue]

not true, a 26wk baby can survive outside the mother (if not hacked from her murderously) but this baby was ruled to have been born dead (edited cause I had to double check where 26 weeks came from… This incident was an 8months pregnant woman)

Coroner: Baby Cut From Colorado Mother's Womb Not Born Alive - ABC News

re: the original post- I still have a hard time understanding why gay rights "infringe" on someone else's religious freedom. Now back to the parent section ;)

I agree that a 26 week old fetus could survive, I was only paraphrasing the reason the prosecutor gave for not charging the nutcase with murder and it had nothing to do with abortion being legal, which is what the other person said. Here is the article: No Murder Charge for Suspect Who Cut Out A Pregnant Woman's Fetus

"Prosecutors told the Denver Post Thursday that they cannot bring murder charges because Colorado does not recognize a fetus as a person by law unless it can survive outside the womb for an unspecified period of time. However, they will likely charge Lane with the unwanted termination of a pregnancy, a felony.

“Under Colorado law, essentially, there is no way murder charges can be brought if it’s not established that the fetus lived as a child outside the body of the mother,” District Attorney Stan Garnett said in a news conference last week."

 

[Deleted member 15795]

I agree that a 26 week old fetus could survive, I was only paraphrasing the reason the prosecutor gave for not charging the nutcase with murder and it had nothing to do with abortion being legal, which is what the other person said. Here is the article: No Murder Charge for Suspect Who Cut Out A Pregnant Woman's Fetus

"Prosecutors told the Denver Post Thursday that they cannot bring murder charges because Colorado does not recognize a fetus as a person by law unless it can survive outside the womb for an unspecified period of time. However, they will likely charge Lane with the unwanted termination of a pregnancy, a felony.

“Under Colorado law, essentially, there is no way murder charges can be brought if it’s not established that the fetus lived as a child outside the body of the mother,” District Attorney Stan Garnett said in a news conference last week."

not trying to hijack the thread but how strange is it that the quote in the AP article is "Under Colorado law, a person can be charged with murdering a baby only if there's evidence the baby survived apart from its mother" which is total semantics I guess and such a tragedy- nut job is the understatement of the year ;)

 

[kristenthegreat]

He is an idiot. For many reasons.
Regardless, I have to point out that while this law may allow a business to refuse service to a gay couple based on religious beliefs, it also will allow a business who's owner follows a religion that calls for the unconditional acceptance of all walks of life to refuse to screen print tshirts that say "Rot in Hell, Fags" or a conservative (insert non Christian religion here) photographer that believes in modesty the right to refuse to shoot a bikini calendar. Yet somehow the media didn't point that out.


The fact that people really think that businesses are going to refuse service such as food or shelter strictly based on sexual orientation dumbfounds me. Will we see an occasional bubba try? Sure, but he had that right before the law was in place and hopefully if he's foolish enough to do it customers will talk with their money AFTER IT HAPPENS.


Edit to add: 99% of the state is calling for Pence's head (among other body parts) to amend this law to put it in line with all of the other states' laws. This includes most of the corporate leaders, the mayors of the major (and minor) cities, and most of the rationally thinking movers and shakers.

Whenever I get sad about things like the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church, I have to remind myself to be thankful for them.

Because as horrible and hateful and terrible and awful as they are...so long as their rights are protected, so are mine. It is the burden of freedom, and while it is a terrible load to bear I will continue to do so. And I will counter all their hatred and disgust and bigotry with the infinite multitude of love in my heart, and it will flow like a tidal wave and someday cleanse the souls of the hateful.

 

[JayySoFierce]

okay maybe not the BEST analogy..

 

[dawgshow]

Oh LORD! I just got stabbed accidentally in a bar fight I ended up in the middle of because I was walking the wrong the direction at the wrong time. My stabbing is now justified because of this act!

... Oh wait, I'm sorry... "land of the free and the home of the brave." the land of free could have their right to disregard my rights as a civilian due to this (utterly COMPLETE BULL SH*T LAW) but the brave should still help. I'm livid. I hope the repercussions are harsh and severe. Just when I started to feel comfortable and safe in the country I was born in....

Stabbing has NOTHING to do with this.

 

[nicolee]

I read parts of the law today to try and understand it the best I can, and the wording is fairly unambiguous: an organization can discriminate against anyone on the basis of religion and then use religious freedom as defense in court. This is where the Indiana law differs from other similar state laws – it specifically states that an organization can use this defense in legal proceedings against an individual.

As stated above, laws like this do protect our religious freedom. The same rules that allow disgusting homophobic and racist organizations to exist, prevent us from having to do services for them. This doesn't mean I'm for this particular law (I'm not), but it does theoretically protect constitutional freedoms.

I'm really praying that the Indiana law doesn't cause an increase in discrimination, particularly on the basis of sexuality, by organizations. Unfortunately, I think it will.

 

[King]

not true, a 26wk baby can survive outside the mother (if not hacked from her murderously) but this baby was ruled to have been born dead (edited cause I had to double check where 26 weeks came from… This incident was an 8months pregnant woman)

Coroner: Baby Cut From Colorado Mother's Womb Not Born Alive - ABC News

re: the original post- I still have a hard time understanding why gay rights "infringe" on someone else's religious freedom. Now back to the parent section ;)

My sister in law is a NICU nurse. Yes a fetus can survive at 26 weeks, but the quality of life is usually going to be quite low. Brain function will most likely not be normal and they will be hooked up to machines their entire life. I believe they have even saved 22 or 23 weekers.

I have heard my SIL talk about how the parents are so happy they were able to save their little baby at this young an age, but she knows deep down they have no idea what they are really in store for.

 

[catlady]

This is not accurate as to the woman who was attacked and had her fetus cut from her womb. The reason he was not charged with murder has nothing to do with abortion. It has to do with the law that a fetus is not considered a person unless the fetus can survive outside the womb.

Perhaps I did not word it to your satisfaction but, the state of Colorado considers it a zygote until 26 weeks of gestation. And yes, abortion laws do have something to do with it. If abortion were left as a medical decision between a doctor and a woman, the time of life would not have had to have been determined by the state government, which is who determined it is a zygote (or in other words, not able to survive outside the womb) until 26 weeks. Abortion laws do feed into these types of determinations because of law consistency, you cant' say it is a human in this situation and not in this situation. Which is why in my original post I said common sense is not accounted for in our law making.

 

[Ashley]

Perhaps I did not word it to your satisfaction but, the state of Colorado considers it a zygote until 26 weeks of gestation. And yes, abortion laws do have something to do with it. If abortion were left as a medical decision between a doctor and a woman, the time of life would not have had to have been determined by the state government, which is who determined it is a zygote (or in other words, not able to survive outside the womb) until 26 weeks. Abortion laws do feed into these types of determinations because of law consistency, you cant' say it is a human in this situation and not in this situation. Which is why in my original post I said common sense is not accounted for in our law making.

Well, yes, and no. Many states will allow a murder charge for a fetus if someone else atracks the woman, even though the mother could abort the pregnancy herself.