All-Star Discussing The Value Of Tumbling In Io(c) 5/6

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

2.5% or .6%... out of 100 that's still not a lot.

 

[King]

Kingston, you did what most persuasive speakers do, however. You skewed the numbers a little. (Slight difference but large in the long run). You showed how there is only 1 point "up for grabs" in the top tier of the tumbling sections so, if you add up the top tiers of each section, which I'm sure you are well aware allows for the total possible points the top contenders in each division should be getting, the total is 78 if my math suffices.

2/78 = 2.5% which is much greater than .6%

True. I will agree with that.

So let me restate: 2.5% of your score is determined by what you normally spend 50% of your routine doing.

Does that change things that much?

 

[King]

If international teams didn't spend as much time tumbling then they can use that time to practice their stunts. If most of the I5 athletes are former L5 athletes then they've probably competed their full or double at Worlds at some point...they've had the tumbling glory so now they can use their extra time to become really good at something else too (not that they weren't good before).
You just can't leave the U.S. teams out of the international division. Thats like telling the host country for the Olympics that they can't participate in the Olympics.
Back to the original topic...that is COMPLETELY ridiculous. If L6 had the stunting emphasis then people would actually understand the difference between L5 and L6 (I still don't really understand the difference between the 2). Tumbling is a big part of cheerleading, you can't just say that it is only worth .6% of the total score when it should all almost be equal. I don't feel that the fact that international teams usually practice on hard floors should make a difference. What do schools compete, practice and cheer on??? If anything I think it would be to their advantage to tumble on those hard floors and then when they go to Worlds with that spring floor they have an advantage because tumbling on that spring floor will be easier than what they are use to.
I've never been on a L5 team, but if I was ever on one I would want all of that time, effort, money and sweat I put into it to be acknowledged and reflected on the score sheet. If my full that I worked so hard to get doesn't really make that big of a difference on the score sheet then why would I want to get one in the first place if I can stick with tucks or layouts and be perfectly fine.

Did you just refute my point, then agree with it?

 

[chyeeaaa69]

I believe I said something about this in another thread, but I believe this is stopping international teams from really putting effort into their tumbling, and afterall, isn't that the exact reason the scoresheet is this way? if you want the sport to advance internationally, you need to be pushing the international teams to achieve the same level of difficulty and execution as American teams. I will give props to a few, be it maybe 5, international teams that have reached a level suitable for genuine competition against American teams, however, considering how many international teams there are, 5 is not very many.
if you are continuing to decrease the necessity for tumbling, where would an athlete in, for example, Jamaica, find the need to improve on a toe back? and maybe a handspring tuck. I understand that stunting can go a long way, but we're seeing it this year and were seeing it last year, stunting is hitting a place where there is very little advancement, and it seems to be skills are repeated within a single stunt sequence (double tick tocks) in an attempt to make a stunt "better", whether that happens or not. you can only do so much in level 5 stunting, and I doubt we will be seeing any team throwing a double twisting ball up stretch to scorp to scorp to scale to needle to blah blah blah. pretty soon, the sport will have to come down to the little things, the way it should be. tumbling and jumps execution, choreography, timing, synchronization, etc., HOWEVER, with the new IOC scoresheet, this is not happening. (apologies for the break from thread topic, just thought we should include jumps, choreography, transitions, etc. into this argument)
tumbling is something that, yes, many athletes have reached an incredible level, however I think it is about time we see international teams being pushed to step it up in a section of the scoresheet they really have never had to, and with the new scoresheet, there is even less point to it.

 

[rvnblue]

Who's in for International Open 5.4?!

 

[Level5Mom]

To add to chyeeaaa69's point, we have already watched the powers that be put out a club scoresheet (that was revised a day later) that de-emphasized tumbling even in the US. Even though it was revised we all must realize that it is just a matter of time before that first scoresheet they put out becomes a reality, maybe even next year. I guess I don't really understand why the industry as a whole wants to down play tumbling?

 

[rvnblue]

To add to chyeeaaa69's point, we have already watched the powers that be put out a club scoresheet (that was revised a day later) that de-emphasized tumbling even in the US. Even though it was revised we all must realize that it is just a matter of time before that first scoresheet they put out becomes a reality, maybe even next year. I guess I don't really understand why the industry as a whole wants to down play tumbling?

Penn & Teller

 

[chyeeaaa69]

To add to chyeeaaa69's point, we have already watched the powers that be put out a club scoresheet (that was revised a day later) that de-emphasized tumbling even in the US. Even though it was revised we all must realize that it is just a matter of time before that first scoresheet they put out becomes a reality, maybe even next year. I guess I don't really understand why the industry as a whole wants to down play tumbling?

I completely agree. I think jumps, choreography, and tumbling are all completely under-valued in the club division and the international division. Not trying to get off topic bringing choreo and jumps into this, however this 3 seem to be lumped together often.

 

[newcheerdad]

Maybe this is a newbie point of view, but isn't the real overarching problem a lack of consistency in scoresheets and rubrics not only from level to level, but from competition to competition? There's always going to be controversy in any sport that's judged, but when the judging criteria change depending on where you are, that seems to me to be a far bigger problem than the nuances of any particular scoresheet.

I apologize in advance if that's a ridiculous statement. :)

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

Did you just refute my point, then agree with it?

refute one then agree with another

 

[Drkilluzionz]

Several people throughout the industry have been noticing the "powers that be" downplay baskets, tumbling and male dancing at the collegiate level and now tumbling and choreography at the international level...One stands to wonder...Why? What the purpose is? Who stands to gain from the changes? & Who becomes obsolete?

 

[ufomom]

Good. Because wanting to compete with US teams but not allowing them to use what they spend a lot of the time practicing isn't really competing against them.

Can you add a multi-shimmy option?

 

[Ashley]

I don't feel that the fact that international teams usually practice on hard floors should make a difference. What do schools compete, practice and cheer on??? If anything I think it would be to their advantage to tumble on those hard floors and then when they go to Worlds with that spring floor they have an advantage because tumbling on that spring floor will be easier than what they are use to.

It's actually not an advantage at all. When I was in college, we would occasionally (rarely) practice at an all-star gym and for many girls on my team it completely messed up their tumbling. You have to learn how to use the spring you get from a spring floor. Even in Daytona on the finals mat, which is up on a stage and springier than hard concrete, I saw A LOT of tumblers over-rotating and landing on their bums.

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

refute one then agree with another

i thought about this again and reread what I said. I don't know if i can say i agree or disagree with anything that was said. I guess you could say that my earlier post was just a bunch of different thoughts from looking at the same topic from different perspectives.

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

It's actually not an advantage at all. When I was in college, we would occasionally (rarely) practice at an all-star gym and for many girls on my team it completely messed up their tumbling. You have to learn how to use the spring you get from a spring floor. Even in Daytona on the finals mat, which is up on a stage and springier than hard concrete, I saw A LOT of tumblers over-rotating and landing on their bums.

hmmm...good point. I wish there was a way that we could help the international teams with their tumbling without only have it represent 2.5% of their score. I'm not talking like a huge advantage like building them all gyms, but maybe like some practice time on a spring floor before worlds or something
.....but at the same time they don't give certain countries a head start in the Olympics just because that sport isn't very practical to play in one country.