Flying...

[AlwaysLearning]

Due to size CP has always been a flyer; never a base. Coming from a parent whose flyer received a concussion after being dropped in a stunt.... Bases & back spots literally hold their flyer's life in their hands. They need to realize the huge amount of trust and responsibility that is being placed on them for that job.

Bases/back spots don't get enough appreciation from their flyers, parents, or coaches. They need to know how important their job is so they can be proud they were chosen to handle that kind of responsibility.

Thank you to all of the bases and back spots for being the solid foundation of every stunt, being the power behind your flyer's success in the air, and protecting your flyers when they come down. You are very much appreciated even if you don't hear it!

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Oh flying. The "brass ring" of cheer.

People say that the obsession started with the "cheerlebrity" culture, but it really didn't. Flying has been a huge deal since I was rocking the Kaepas with triangles on them when I was 5 years old.

Full disclosure: I have always flown from pee wee to college. Not my fault. I'm barely 5'0 NOW (yes, as an adult.) I had no other options. I actually WANTED to base at varying points but as the eternally smallest girl on my teams (ex: 4'10 and 80 in HS) that was my forever position.

With that said, this hits home with me as I coach Y2, J3, and Senior 3.

I don't think parents and kids realize how different it is to fly Y2 vs. Junior or Senior 3.

Every year without fail I have a Y2 flyer be completely crushed that her Y2 skills do not transfer well to Junior 3, where skills all are fully extended, and becoming more complex.

There is also the "junior growth spurt" that ends up transitioning a lot of kids to basing. You may think I'm referring to size, but the growth in legs changes flexibility with kids and skills (for some) just don't pull as easily. It also happens right as Y2 is moving to J3. Boom. She is now edged out by someone who is more flexible and making the skills jump a little easier than she is.

I would SO LOVE for everyone who wants to fly to have a chance, but I am in the business of building a team, not giving every girl what they want.

If I have a max sized team, I need a MAX of 8 flyers and maybe some alternates. I do not need the 17 who keep telling me "I have to fly" or "all I've ever done is fly."

I actually address the "All my kid has every done is ______" in my pre-tryout meetings.

Prior to college, all I'd ever done is work fast food. I ask "Can you imagine my life if I'd said that all I'd ever done is fast food?" and stuck to that?

The main point is to BE OPEN-MINDED and VERSATILE.

Very few kids go through their ENTIRE cheer careers as FLYERS ONLY. It's best to realize that now.

 

[hercheermomma]

My cp used to fly on her all-star team and now she bases. She will always fly at school whether she wants to or not, she's always the smallest. She is I promise a foot shorter than her friends. On her all-star team she bases girls as tall as her and last year based a flyer taller than her in the pyramid. She is amazing at both. She loves flying, but she also loves basing. I prefer basing, I'm so much less nervous at competitions. And now that she's thinking about cheering in college, she is thankful she has the experience of both positions. She is a very well rounded cheerleader and that only helps her!


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[lisa G]

PS...not all small senior flyers are "babies" and incapable of "doing their job". What/whom determines "senior size"? My senior aged child is 4'5" and 60lbs. She will be 13 this Summer. She is a flyer on a Sr team and is the smallest athlete on her team, though not the youngest. Some kids are just small. Small flyer does not = a "baby" who doesn't do her job. She definitely keeps up and doesn't "hide" during tumbling. She pulls beautiful body positions.

And can I just say that as the parent of a flyer, I am ridiculously thankful for her bases. They work so hard and constantly love and support her. I hope they never feel like they were "reduced" to base. My flyer would be useless without her bases.

You are absolutely correct that small does not equal baby and i never said it did. My comments wouldn't even apply to someone of your daughters age as a 13 year old isnt a "baby", being small doesn't make you a "baby", your age makes you a "baby". I wasnt talking about the girls who are just small i was talking about the trend of putting the absolutely youngest girl possible on the team EVEN if they can't keep up in the other areas. I was not personally attacking your daughter and it sounds like she is appropriately placed and at 13 (i wouldn't consider a 13 yr old a "baby" anyway) should have no problem keeping up with the rest of the team but i seriously watched a junior team where most of the flyers could not have been more than 6 or 7 and they literally tried to hid behind other girls during the dance because they couldn't physically move fast enough to keep up. All i am saying is it is becoming more and more common that 10 year olds are placed on a SR team with the express purpose of flying whether or not they can keep up in other areas. Most 10 year olds do not have the same body awareness and ability to move like a 14-18 year old which is not their fault and they do the best they can, i just personally prefer to watch teams that are able to do just as well with flyers that are similarily aged as their teammates rather than have six 10 year olds and twenty 14-18 year olds. it is a personally preference in what i like to see.

 

[dawgshow]

Oh flying. The "brass ring" of cheer.

People say that \

Prior to college, all I'd ever done is work fast food. I ask "Can you imagine my life if I'd said that all I'd ever done is fast food?" and stuck to that?

That is a great example!

 

[lisa G]

Lisa, I hope your daughters attitude has changed "even though she has to base" and has realized EVERYONE in a stunt group or team is important!


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She goes out there every practice, gives it her all (shoe burns, bruises, black eyes, ripped off finger nail and all), and her stunt group was the ONLY stunt group to not have a fall during any competition this past season. Does that mean she still doesn't get upset that she can't fly, NO. Does that mean she still wouldnt' rather fly, NO. But whether or not she flys, she goes out there and does her absolutely best whether or not it is her favorite job. Just because she "prefers" one thing does not mean she does not go out and give her best to whatever job she is assigned. She will always wish she could prove she could do it if she was given the chance and that is normal so she doesn't need an attitude adjustment. There is probably something in life that you wished you could have done but wasn't allowed, but that doesn't mean you have a bad attitude

 

[Helen uk uni cheer]

Oh flying. The "brass ring" of cheer.

People say that the obsession started with the "cheerlebrity" culture, but it really didn't. Flying has been a huge deal since I was rocking the Kaepas with triangles on them when I was 5 years old.

believe it or not Kaepas are huge in the uk with many cheerleaders still wear them thogh im hopefully either going to get nfinty evolutions or no limits vro soon

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

I personally love the look of taller, more grown-up flyers - nothing looks better than a stunt group where all the members are of similar size and the stunt is executed perfectly w/ amazing flexibility, good form and stability - looks a lot better than the groups where three 17 year olds are holding up a pre-pubescent kid who weighs 65 pounds and can't point her foot or straighten her knee - it also looks "easy" or almost like cheating when the flyer is super, super tiny. It's probably all the same to the judges though, so I can see where smaller is better in the eyes of coaches.

Unless someone is just huge in relationship to the majority of the rest of the team, I think flyers should be chosen based on flexibility and ability to hold themselves tight in the air w/ good form - like for instance, teams could bring in a set of the skilled and experienced bases (maybe from the outside so they are impartial) and have them "audition" all the kids who have interest in flying over the course of a day or two, and then literally pick the ones who do the best job along w/ a few alternates.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't seem to get the impression that every all star cheerleader's dream is to be a flyer - at least not from what CP has experienced so far? Many do seem to prefer the other roles, and most seem to enjoy the challenge of keeping their stunt in the air no matter what position they are in.

To those girls who really do want to fly and feel they are good at it but have outgrown max flyer size on their current team, would going to a gym w/ a large coed team be feasible? Or do even those teams do selections based on a smaller size?

I guess for boys they have the opposite issue - the shorter and smaller players often have to be twice as good at their desired position to overcome the desire of a coach to place people according to size, but it happens.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Some 17 year old girls are very petite/tiny, flexible, and talented. In most situations it wouldn't work for them to back spot and they will naturally end up being flyers. It is a team sport, you have to trust the Coaches, and go where you are needed.

 

[TheVipersMom]

I personally love the look of taller, more grown-up flyers - nothing looks better than a stunt group where all the members are of similar size and the stunt is executed perfectly w/ amazing flexibility, good form and stability - looks a lot better than the groups where three 17 year olds are holding up a pre-pubescent kid who weighs 65 pounds and can't point her foot or straighten her knee - it also looks "easy" or almost like cheating when the flyer is super, super tiny. It's probably all the same to the judges though, so I can see where smaller is better in the eyes of coaches.

Unless someone is just huge in relationship to the majority of the rest of the team, I think flyers should be chosen based on flexibility and ability to hold themselves tight in the air w/ good form - like for instance, teams could bring in a set of the skilled and experienced bases (maybe from the outside so they are impartial) and have them "audition" all the kids who have interest in flying over the course of a day or two, and then literally pick the ones who do the best job along w/ a few alternates.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't seem to get the impression that every all star cheerleader's dream is to be a flyer - at least not from what CP has experienced so far? Many do seem to prefer the other roles, and most seem to enjoy the challenge of keeping their stunt in the air no matter what position they are in.

To those girls who really do want to fly and feel they are good at it but have outgrown max flyer size on their current team, would going to a gym w/ a large coed team be feasible? Or do even those teams do selections based on a smaller size?

I guess for boys they have the opposite issue - the shorter and smaller players often have to be twice as good at their desired position to overcome the desire of a coach to place people according to size, but it happens.

I feel like this would not work. Just because you are the most flexible flyer, you are bigger, and got that part then that will just move all the smaller kids off the team. Who is going to base the bigger more flexible flyer? Certainly not the little kids.
My daughters J3 has seven stunt groups. My kid is the biggest flyer at age 9 and my kid is tall her for her age but definitely still small compared to the bases.

The coaches are going to do what's best for the team. These flyers could not base anyone as these junior aged kids are much bigger. So you are saying small kids shouldn't even be allowed on the team so they can have the bigger flyers? If the small flyers can get the job done although you prefer a bigger flyer then that's not fair to them who likely bring more skills to that team then just being little flyers. I would say our flyers on average have more difficult tumbling passes, and more tumbling overall in their routine then these bigger bases. Just saying, if a kid is small sometimes that is their only option for a spot. It is harder to make the team as a flyer then a base because only 25% of the team can be flyers that can't base or else you won't be maxing out with all those front spots!


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[alexacheer2010]

I feel like this would not work. Just because you are the most flexible flyer, you are bigger, and got that part then that will just move all the smaller kids off the team. Who is going to base the bigger more flexible flyer? Certainly not the little kids.
My daughters J3 has seven stunt groups. My kid is the biggest flyer at age 9 and my kid is tall her for her age but definitely still small compared to the bases.

The coaches are going to do what's best for the team. These flyers could not base anyone as these junior aged kids are much bigger. So you are saying small kids shouldn't even be allowed on the team so they can have the bigger flyers? If the small flyers can get the job done although you prefer a bigger flyer then that's not fair to them who likely bring more skills to that team then just being little flyers. I would say our flyers on average have more difficult tumbling passes, and more tumbling overall in their routine then these bigger bases. Just saying, if a kid is small sometimes that is their only option for a spot. It is harder to make the team as a flyer then a base because only 25% of the team can be flyers that can't base or else you won't be maxing out with all those front spots!


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I think maybe (I could be completely off here) the other poster meant that flyers shouldn't JUST be put in the air because they can't do anything else. And I'd like to add that I think small flyers are awesome BUT I wouldn't want a 110 lb 17 year old level 5 flyer getting "beat out" essentially by a first year senior aged level whatever flyer for the sole reason of "oh she's smaller." In my experience I hated having the little girls as my flyers because my flyers didn't fight for the stunt or have any body control. They just expected my group to keep them up and not have the flyer do any work!



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[Keep_Believing]

I copies & pasted part of a reply from @StuntMonkey . I can't figure out how to also post the videos with it "I tend to hold the (less than popular) opinion that size does matter... when all else is equal. That means that given two athletes, both have the same level of experience, flexibility, strength, body awareness, explosive power and nerve; the smaller, lighter one will have more overall success with stunting, especially co-ed style."

With popular cheerleaders like Gabi Butler posting and sharing videos/tutorials on flexibility, and gyms offering stretch classes, flexibility classes, Co Ed stunt classes, etc. I am seeing more and more girls of all sizes with great flexibility / body positions. To me the smaller, petite girls will have an advantage flying and the taller girls will have advantages back spotting. Sometimes it comes down to physics.

 

[Pebbles49]

As a parent of a child who always been a backspot (11y.o. and now 5'6) since starting cheer, I think, 1 year she main base... I feel sorry for the little girls who started out Flying, it seems that it is always this obsession and fears of constantly being replaced and not having any control of being replaced... flyers cannot control growing up and what genes they inherited, be it a late growth spurts, etc... So far, I've seen barely 10-11 year olds being removed from teams because they totally refuse to make changes or try something different (base and/or backspot)...In my opinion, refusal to try something new is not a good trait for a young person... Just like someone mentioned earlier, if you only worked in fast food are you going to be content working in that position forever, probably not.

Maybe, in retrospection, I am glad my daughter was blessed not to fly(sarcasm) because she is more flexible and has learned every position that will make her available team member on any team and maybe, I have been lucky to be at gyms that treat being a backspot as a holy grail position on the team. My daughter, as a tall youngster have been treated so well and valued that she will not trade her backspot position in the world, plus, on Youth teams backspotters are golden and it is hard to find tall girls to fill those positions, but there are tons of tiny girls, who all want to just fly....(in my opinion, very limited)

 

[Keep_Believing]

My older CP started as a flyer then later as she got older and hit a growth spurt she was switched to a base. When she first started flying she probably took another girl's flyer spot who at first didn't think it was fair my CP was flying because she was younger and smaller. Way back when my CP started flying she was excited and never thought it was unfair that she was given a chance. Then came a time when it was someone else's chance. My CP was surprised to really enjoy and like basing. So, sometimes it is a cycle. And, sometimes a flyer will fly their entire cheer career. In the end as I always say, it is a team sport, just trust the coaches to do what is best for the team. ****** sorry, I feel I worded the first half of that weird ********** Point is how can it be unfair to be moved, when you started flying someone else was probably moved.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

I think maybe (I could be completely off here) the other poster meant that flyers shouldn't JUST be put in the air because they can't do anything else. And I'd like to add that I think small flyers are awesome BUT I wouldn't want a 110 lb 17 year old level 5 flyer getting "beat out" essentially by a first year senior aged level whatever flyer for the sole reason of "oh she's smaller." In my experience I hated having the little girls as my flyers because my flyers didn't fight for the stunt or have any body control. They just expected my group to keep them up and not have the flyer do any work!



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That is what I mean - that small size alone shouldn't be the main determinant that makes a person a flyer.