All-Star Gyms Releasing Athletes

[DonnaM]

I agree-it would make more sense as a USASF restriction. I have no problem saying that you cannot compete at Worlds (or Summit, for that matter) with a new gym that season as a default option, with waivers on a case by case basis. (And, in general, if the athlete started the process and was not offered any incentive to change teams, I see no problems with letting them compete-but I could easily see a coach offering incentives to encourage an athlete to come to them mid-season both to help their team, and to damage the opposition).

 

[BlueCat]

You’re comparing apples to oranges.

NCAA transfer rules do not apply in every circumstance and are meant to keep academics at the forefront. They do a painfully lousy job of accomplishing this task, as we all know college athletics are a huge money maker for the schools. Unless the all star gym receiving the athlete in question is earning a percentage of gross revenue from the ticket sales at competitions, there’s no comparison. Your argument comparing all star cheerleading to NCAA athletes meets further complications given the recent court rulings against the NCAA’s restrictions on how athletes can be compensated. Athletes can now potentially be lured away by a better package deal from another university. Having to sit out a year is a deterrent to taking the bait.

The olympics are similarly fashioned in that Olympic athletes may be considered “amateur” but they have huge earning potential from endorsements. What’s to keep an Olympic athlete from jumping to the US team or another team where they can gain greater market exposure and increase their earning potential?

All star cheerleaders do not carry that kind of marketing/earning potential. Unless you’re living under the delusion that there are hundreds of thousands of people who give a rip which uniform this kid is wearing on the floor at Worlds, your argument does not hold water.

I am generally opposed to the rule as well, but for the sake of argument, none of those situations allow you to switch/jump across to another college or country in the weeks or months right before the championship. Jalen Hurts couldn't start playing for Auburn the week after he got benched at Alabama.

All star athletes are allowed to switch gyms between seasons, regardless of what the gym owners/coaches want. Also, if they start a season and aren't happy within the first few months, they can jump then with no real consequence. The restrictions only apply in-season and only last for a few months.

 

[Lisa Seye]

All star athletes are allowed to switch gyms between seasons, regardless of what the gym owners/coaches want. Also, if they start a season and aren't happy within the first few months, they can jump then with no real consequence. The restrictions only apply in-season and only last for a few months.

Unless you are part of a franchise that wont allow you to change gyms within the franchise between seasons despite not being informed this is a rule and not signing anything stating you agree not to switch to another franchise location of the same program. Athletes are powerless in that aspect because despite not being a written rule, the franchise program just wont allow you to try out. So they force an athlete into another program all together. Another "rule" that protects gyms, not athletes.

I understand the reason for not switching mid season because the teams could suffer with having to redo routines over and over. It doesn't just protect the gym but the team. And generally if a team doesnt have a spot for you, they usually let you go. This case is tricky because we truly dont know the whole story.....

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I am generally opposed to the rule as well, but for the sake of argument, none of those situations allow you to switch/jump across to another college or country in the weeks or months right before the championship. Jalen Hurts couldn't start playing for Auburn the week after he got benched at Alabama.

All star athletes are allowed to switch gyms between seasons, regardless of what the gym owners/coaches want. Also, if they start a season and aren't happy within the first few months, they can jump then with no real consequence. The restrictions only apply in-season and only last for a few months.

That’s still assuming this is a sport and that there is compensation flowing in the direction of the athletes.

Cheer is not a sport, and 100% of the compensation flows from the athletes in the direction of gym owners and competition companies.

Cheerleaders and their parents are customers, and have a right to spend their money wherever they wish. The earned the money. It’s theirs. No one else should have any control over where they choose to spend it. If gym owners do not want their customers to leave for another gym, no matter the point in the season, they have two options: keep them happy, or create a culture of loyalty that’s strong enough to overcome those decisions made in favor of the team over the individual.

I know nothing about the particular situation that stirred up this thread. It sounds like Woodlands Elite is involved and possibly this kid was replaced with another flyer. If that’s the case, Woodlands Elite has already replaced the kid. If they are upset that she has left, they need to re-evaluate the circumstances and either create a stronger team culture or wash their hands of her. I’m not suggesting there’s anything wrong with WE’s program, but a good business owner that is that upset about losing a customer will look at themselves first and decide if there was anything that could be done differently. If not...peace out.

Even if the family owes them money. That’s not for USASF to allow them to dictate where she can go and compete. That’s why we have civil court and collections companies in this country. Pursue the matter legally if it’s worth it to you, if it’s not, let her take her problems somewhere else.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

I know nothing about the particular situation that stirred up this thread. It sounds like Woodlands Elite is involved and possibly this kid was replaced with another flyer. If that’s the case, Woodlands Elite has already replaced the kid. If they are upset that she has left, they need to re-evaluate the circumstances and either create a stronger team culture or wash their hands of her. I’m not suggesting there’s anything wrong with WE’s program, but a good business owner that is that upset about losing a customer will look at themselves first and decide if there was anything that could be done differently. If not...peace out.

Even if the family owes them money. That’s not for USASF to allow them to dictate where she can go and compete. That’s why we have civil court and collections companies in this country. Pursue the matter legally if it’s worth it to you, if it’s not, let her take her problems somewhere else.

According to what has been posted, she was only taken out of a stunt. She was still part of the routine. She was not replaced on the team, just in one stunt.

 

[icequeen]

According to what has been posted, she was only taken out of a stunt. She was still part of the routine. She was not replaced on the team, just in one stunt.

That’s what WE posted too. She was still part of the routine. My personal opinion is she/mom should have had a meeting with the gym owner, stating their concerns. Asking maybe to be released and than reached out to Prodigy for her spot. My only issue is that she missed or was late to her team practice because she was at another gym. Prodigy also should have not entertained an athlete still associated with a gym, when they clearly advertised for one that was not.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

That’s what WE posted too. She was still part of the routine. My personal opinion is she/mom should have had a meeting with the gym owner, stating their concerns. Asking maybe to be released and than reached out to Prodigy for her spot. My only issue is that she missed or was late to her team practice because she was at another gym. Prodigy also should have not entertained an athlete still associated with a gym, when they clearly advertised for one that was not.

I agree totally.

 

[cheermomforever]

At the beginning of the season we had a big gym offer one of our amazing boys the world....including future college opportunities, which they could not do obviously. Thank goodness the mom said no we will not do a minimum of 2 1/2 hours each way just for cheer! So yes gyms will do anything to get someone, this is why a rule needs to be in place.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

According to what has been posted, she was only taken out of a stunt. She was still part of the routine. She was not replaced on the team, just in one stunt.

Maybe not, but if they replaced her as a flyer, they can easily replace her in the routine.

 

[SthrnCheerMom]

Maybe not, but if they replaced her as a flyer, they can easily replace her in the routine.

Sure. But at the time, that is not what had happened. WE even said she was still a vital part of the routine.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

At the beginning of the season we had a big gym offer one of our amazing boys the world....including future college opportunities, which they could not do obviously. Thank goodness the mom said no we will not do a minimum of 2 1/2 hours each way just for cheer! So yes gyms will do anything to get someone, this is why a rule needs to be in place.

Gyms offer these things because a lot of parents are dumb enough to believe they have value. “Future college opportunities” = a lot of people believe there are a load of legitimate college scholarships available for cheerleading. This is blatantly false. However, people are dumb enough to believe is, so they take the bait. It’s sort of like the people who make a bazillion dollars hocking garbage items on late night infomercials. “A $2 million dollar value for just five easy payments of $19.95. Just set it and forget it.”

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Sure. But at the time, that is not what had happened. WE even said she was still a vital part of the routine.

I’m sure they did. I would too if I was trying to justify the unjustifiable.

 

[tojofasho]

I have a lot of feelings about this whole situation, but I'll throw in my two cents from a high school coaching perspective. I definitely think USASF should have something similar (obviously it wouldn't work exactly the same since school cheer is a whole different ball game).

Here in AZ, if an athlete switches schools during the school year (regardless of sport), they can only compete in 50% of AIA events at the new school unless they appeal it directly to the AIA (our high school sports governing board). The only situation AIA will release the athlete fully for are if the parents moved for a legitimate reason (a big one at my current school is that it's near the Power Plant that is currently hiring, so people are moving out for their jobs), or if there is documented signs of abuse and/or bullying (I've never heard of this one actually being utilized). That's pretty much it. I've seen so many kids try and appeal and pretty much every time they get turned down.

The thing I like most is that this means that the schools and coaches themselves have zero say, and the athletes don't get to try and bring emotions into it or manipulate situations. It all boils down to facts. Again, I get that all star is WAY different since people don't attend gyms in their zip codes and they're paying customers. But if something like this was implemented then the coaches wouldn't be to blame if they kept an athlete, but they also couldn't have sole control over the athlete being forced to stay. It would literally just boil down to "hey can you prove that you had a legitimate reason to switch other than I don't like my spot in a routine?"

Again, I get that these people are paying customers, and that complicates things a bit. But I do believe this is an important rule, and even though it's not perfect, it does have a purpose for being put in place. Also, in a much smaller role, my brother did Pop Warner football as a kid and you weren't allowed to switch teams during the season, you either finished it out with the team you joined or you quit all together until next year. So it's not an uncommon rule for kids' activities (yes, even ones you pay for) to have.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I have a lot of feelings about this whole situation, but I'll throw in my two cents from a high school coaching perspective. I definitely think USASF should have something similar (obviously it wouldn't work exactly the same since school cheer is a whole different ball game).

Here in AZ, if an athlete switches schools during the school year (regardless of sport), they can only compete in 50% of AIA events at the new school unless they appeal it directly to the AIA (our high school sports governing board). The only situation AIA will release the athlete fully for are if the parents moved for a legitimate reason (a big one at my current school is that it's near the Power Plant that is currently hiring, so people are moving out for their jobs), or if there is documented signs of abuse and/or bullying (I've never heard of this one actually being utilized). That's pretty much it. I've seen so many kids try and appeal and pretty much every time they get turned down.

The thing I like most is that this means that the schools and coaches themselves have zero say, and the athletes don't get to try and bring emotions into it or manipulate situations. It all boils down to facts. Again, I get that all star is WAY different since people don't attend gyms in their zip codes and they're paying customers. But if something like this was implemented then the coaches wouldn't be to blame if they kept an athlete, but they also couldn't have sole control over the athlete being forced to stay. It would literally just boil down to "hey can you prove that you had a legitimate reason to switch other than I don't like my spot in a routine?"

Again, I get that these people are paying customers, and that complicates things a bit. But I do believe this is an important rule, and even though it's not perfect, it does have a purpose for being put in place. Also, in a much smaller role, my brother did Pop Warner football as a kid and you weren't allowed to switch teams during the season, you either finished it out with the team you joined or you quit all together until next year. So it's not an uncommon rule for kids' activities (yes, even ones you pay for) to have.

Does AIA enforce this rule for cheerleading?

KHSAA has a similar transfer rule, but it doesn’t apply to cheerleading or dance.

Even in mainstream sports, they typically bow down the first time someone mentions the word “attorney.”

There was a basketball team in our boys state tournament this week that had 8 transfer students on a 15-man roster.

Also, the KHSAA rule either does not apply to or is easy to circumvent for private schools Does the AIA Rule apply to private schools?

 

[tojofasho]

Does AIA enforce this rule for cheerleading?

KHSAA has a similar transfer rule, but it doesn’t apply to cheerleading or dance.

Even in mainstream sports, they typically bow down the first time someone mentions the word “attorney.”

There was a basketball team in our boys state tournament this week that had 8 transfer students on a 15-man roster.

Also, the KHSAA rule either does not apply to or is easy to circumvent for private schools Does the AIA Rule apply to private schools?

AIA does enforce the rule for cheerleading pretty consistently, I myself have been on the negative end of it with one of my athletes. They instill the fear into athletic directors to know that if they are utilizing transfer students and not following policy, and if someone reports it to AIA, the school can lose the team, multiple teams, funding, etc. They've got crazy strict transfer rules, and they actually just updated them to make them even more strict going into the next school year.

Not entirely sure how it works with KHSAA (I've been in AZ my entire life), but AIA takes the rule pretty seriously since most of AZ is open enrollment (students do not have to attend the school whose boundaries they live in). And they do also govern all private schools as well and sort of lump them in with the public schools for sports. With that being said, charter schools are quite prevalent here and I actually believe they have a separate governing body, so I'm not entirely sure if the rules would apply to them? Arizona's education system is kind of a mess so meh.

Like I said, it's not a perfect solution, and would definitely have to be adapted to work for allstar. But I like the idea of the coaches/gyms not being stuck in the middle and forced to make that decision, which will have negative repercussions for their program no matter their decision. I just think USASF should make a blanket rule and then have an appeals process to an unbiased party. Now with that being said, this is my first year actually in the allstar world, as I always did high school/college cheer, so I'm a newcomer into this whole new side of cheerleading. Definitely still on a learning curve.