All-Star Illegal Athlete

[Ashley]

How does USASF make sure that the athletes competing are submitting valid birth certificates or are even using their own birth certificates? Do the coaches actually need to produce the original ones when they sign in their teams or are they sending in copies when they send in their rosters? Do the athletes' passes have their names on them or are they just lanyards that say "Competitor" on them? I know of two instances where a gym had a kid on their World's team who turned the correct age just a month prior to Worlds yet they somehow managed to compete (two different kids, two years in a row.) Do we blame the coach for cheating or USASF for not catching it?

We gave our gym owners copies. And lanyards this year just said competitor. Last year there was a little slip of paper that had the name and the gym on it.

 

[CheerBank]

We gave our gym owners copies. And lanyards this year just said competitor. Last year there was a little slip of paper that had the name and the gym on it.

So basically, a gym could have used a birth certificate for another athlete and it would not have mattered if the actual athlete on the mat was on the Worlds Team Roster the gym submitted to USASF when they registered after their bid, since lanyards did not say they actual team members' names. Once that roster is sent in, is there no following up to see if the actual athletes who compete are the ones registered?

 

[Deleted member 15]

You have to turn 17 by Aug 31 of the year the season starts. So 2011, for the 2012 worlds. I'm honestly not sure if the rules are different for actual international teams (outside of the US)

For 2012 Worlds in L6 divisions you had/have to be 17 by December 31, 2012, not by August 31, 2011.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I know of someone who used a siblings birth cert scanned it changed the name and put their other kids name on it. This isnt a current issue, but people do the strangest things

 

[CheerBank]

I know of someone who used a siblings birth cert scanned it changed the name and put their other kids name on it. This isnt a current issue, but people do the strangest things

And of course the coach was completely aware of it and probably even suggested it. It's really sad.

 

[ztaprincess]

I just wrote an e-mail to the EP who awarded the bid to them for this year's worlds (as well as the year before...) to ask how it happened that they gave a bid to a team that wasn't eligible for a bid...

BowCat there was a national team competing at ICU, not the FTG Bullets, so there shouldn't any exceptions be made for them...

But what I would really like to know is, how nobody at USASF caught this before worlds - a gym entering the same team with mostly the same athletes in the same division, that would have been ineligible to even get a bid...

Thank you for writing to the EP. I have not receieved an email back from Mr. Peterson after the first response. My second email to him was asking how a team who was disqualified in 2011 was able to obtain a bid and compete in 2012 with the same athlete when in the worlds packet it says they should not have been allowed to. No response back from him and that was sent 2-3 days ago. If I don't get a response in the next 48 hours I will contact others within the USASF. This is not something that should just be ignored.

I believe it was said that for 2013 they were going back to the Aug cut off for all divisions again, someone correct me if I am wrong. If that is the case and she is not 17 by August 31, 2012 she better not be at worlds on the same team again or I am going to be livid.

 

[NJ Coach]

I believe it was said that for 2013 they were going back to the Aug cut off for all divisions again, someone correct me if I am wrong. If that is the case and she is not 17 by August 31, 2012 she better not be at worlds on the same team again or I am going to be livid.

After what happened last year in the IOC6 division at Worlds, I'm convinced international teams are given a pass.

 

[ztaprincess]

After what happened last year in the IOC6 division at Worlds, I'm convinced international teams are given a pass.

I am beginning to think that. Trust me I love seeing the international teams compete against the US teams, but with this issue right now and the Bangkok thing, which would have both happened at the 2011 Worlds, I don't even know what to think anymore. I can almost guarantee if this happened in one of the senior divisions with a US team then things would have already been taken care of. Things like this make the USASF out to be a joke. Now, if I receive a response back with information that they are going to handle the situation and something actually happens then I will apologize and eat my word. I just want it to be fair to every single team there.

 

[mollymags]

At worlds, my best friend was approached by a big gym and was told "it's okay, just turn in a fake birth certificate" -.-

I know one EP who contacted the state about a birth certificate--and found out it was fake!

Yep. I work for an EP and I've spent time on the phone with the department of vital records trying to confirm birth certificates. Although I will say, it's much more difficult/time consuming to get your hands on that information than you'd think. But, you know, if you're going to turn in a fake birth certificate, you should probably keep your real birthdate off your facebook and hope there aren't any public records with your real birthdate on them.

 

[CheerBank]

Yep. I work for an EP and I've spent time on the phone with the department of vital records trying to confirm birth certificates. Although I will say, it's much more difficult/time consuming to get your hands on that information than you'd think. But, you know, if you're going to turn in a fake birth certificate, you should probably keep your real birthdate off your facebook and hope there aren't any public records with your real birthdate on them.

Can someone submit copies of Facebook posts as proof of someone's real age to an EP if you wished to claim someone was illegal? Is that sufficient proof?

 

[mollymags]

Can someone submit copies of Facebook posts as proof of someone's real age to an EP if you wished to claim someone was illegal? Is that sufficient proof?

I can't speak for all EP's but I think it would be sufficient enough to spark further investigation, if nothing else. I don't think anyone would automatically DQ someone just off of a birthdate listed on facebook, though. But if there's that in addition to other proof (records of driving tickets, news articles with the athlete's age, etc), it could help your case.

 

[Ashley]

For 2012 Worlds in L6 divisions you had/have to be 17 by December 31, 2012, not by August 31, 2011.

Oops, sorry :oops:

 

[Ashley]

So basically, a gym could have used a birth certificate for another athlete and it would not have mattered if the actual athlete on the mat was on the Worlds Team Roster the gym submitted to USASF when they registered after their bid, since lanyards did not say they actual team members' names. Once that roster is sent in, is there no following up to see if the actual athletes who compete are the ones registered?

Nope, no checks.

 

[ztaprincess]

Checking in and letting people know that my e-mail went unanswered so I sent one to Ms. Winn earlier today. Thank you to those of you on here who have either posted on here or sent a PM with further information regarding this. I will update everyone if/when I receive a response back. Hopefully this issue gets resolved and an example is made that teams cannot cheat and get away with it.

 

[Drkilluzionz]

Can someone submit copies of Facebook posts as proof of someone's real age to an EP if you wished to claim someone was illegal? Is that sufficient proof?

Nope...a few board members were involved in a situation this year where the parties involved were able to provide an event producer with:

Facebook proof (posts and messages which admit to the cheating and both parties having knowledge of it)
copy of a drivers license
apology from the cheating gyms staff about how ashamed they were

At the end of the day the gym was able to obtain 3 forms of valid identification and was cleared of all wrong doing and was allowed to keep all their titles (they competed the athlete before and after the situation blew up and kept her after it was "cleared").

I can see where the EP says their hands were tied b/c they provided three forms of ID but there's got to be a better way of following through on claims like this. If not than Top Gun competed and Intl Open Coed Hip Hop, Open 4, Intl Open Coed 5 and Intl Open Coed 6 last season...Why shouldn't we falsify documents and put them all on senior teams if no one is going to question us?

Side note...the girl was in our program a few years back and inquired about my college team...I know she was illegal.