All-Star Insurance Issues

[cljacks99]

I have been told that as well, waiver means nothing if someone can prove negligence...

 

[NJ Coach]

Well I understand the motivation for a lot of these decisions. I can tell you the process they went about setting these rules ruined whatever good these rules might have done. I mean why the heck didn't someone mention insurance in any of this?

Exactly. If there are numbers, where are they and what are they from? Why exactly is insurance dropping coverage? What determination was made that standing to double, standing full and bounding passes were the cause of most injury? Why not put the information out there to back up the process? Why on earth was this done behind closed doors with no one aware until the mandate was dropped on us? There is a semi-transparent rules process...what has changed since last year?

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Correct. You can sue your gym if they decide to take your 6 year old and try back tuck baskets and she breaks her neck. Gross negligence. You can sue the EP if their stage lighting falls on your head during the performance. However, I would say that you can't sue the EP if you rupture your ACL doing a full. And I am willing to step out on a limb and say if an athlete gets dropped on her head, has a closed head injury, ends up seizing and there is no emergency personnel on staff to properly handle the emergency, which results in lack of oxygen to the brain and brain damage, you bet my heiny I would sue.

 

[5-6-7-8]

And that is why this rule came about probably...it doesn't really cost the EPs money (not talking about loss of revenue necessarily).

I would guess that if it came between hiring emergency personnel for an event vs. limiting tumbling for an EP to get insurance, it is pretty obvious they would go with limiting tumbling since it is "free."

 

[yojaehs]

College changed and injuries have not, it's just a smoke screen for insurance companies to say, "hey we are trying".

 

[KRECCheer]

And that is why this rule came about probably...it doesn't really cost the EPs money (not talking about loss of revenue necessarily).

I would guess that if it came between hiring emergency personnel for an event vs. limiting tumbling for an EP to get insurance, it is pretty obvious they would go with limiting tumbling since it is "free."

Emergency personnel is needed for any event. Bee Sting walking inside the doors? Asthma attacks? Dehydration? To not have them is ridiculous.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Emergency personnel is needed for any event. Bee Sting walking inside the doors? Asthma attacks? Dehydration? To not have them is ridiculous.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[munchkinmom]

And that is why this rule came about probably...it doesn't really cost the EPs money (not talking about loss of revenue necessarily).

I would guess that if it came between hiring emergency personnel for an event vs. limiting tumbling for an EP to get insurance, it is pretty obvious they would go with limiting tumbling since it is "free."

We can legislate this away. I bet in many of the areas cheer is biggest in, there are a majority of state law makers that would love to scrawl their name at the bottom of a bill "to protect children" (they love those) that require EMTs or the like at all contact sporting contests involving child participants specifically including cheerleading. They should be there anyway...

 

[XtremeWpg]

Man...and I was complaining about $2200/season for our $1 mil liability and extended health care for our program (ambulance, physio, AT etc). I'll just pipe down about it forever more!

 

[munchkinmom]

I have heard that part of the motivation for all this is cheerleading has a problem getting insured because of the increased amount of injuries. How many companies currently will insure cheerleading? K&K and ? (I have heard there are only two).

This is a major deal because no insurance means no cheerleading.

I've heard Markel Ins (VA) and Sadler & Company (SC) insure gymnastics gyms. Their websites say they insure cheerleading gyms too, both BBB accredited. (No personal experience with either company)

 

[MissBee]

I've heard Markel Ins (VA) and Sadler & Company (SC) insure gymnastics gyms. Their websites say they insure cheerleading gyms too, both BBB accredited. (No personal experience with either company)

I used Markel in the past. Was very happy with them. Of course, we never filed an injury claim. We did have to do workman's comp for an injured coach (went smoothly) and for damaged equipment after a pipe burst (again, went smoothly, really easy to work with).

However, I would say that you can't sue the EP if you rupture your ACL doing a full.

You could sue if the spring floor was faulty or installed incorrectly. Depending on their arrangement, the EP could turn around and sue several different groups: the spring floor manufacturer if it came to them defective, the union at the venue that installed the floor if it's a union facility (if they're not a union facility, the EP typically has their own staff set up the floors).

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I used Markel in the past. Was very happy with them. Of course, we never filed an injury claim. We did have to do workman's comp for an injured coach (went smoothly) and for damaged equipment after a pipe burst (again, went smoothly, really easy to work with).



You could sue if the spring floor was faulty or installed incorrectly. Depending on their arrangement, the EP could turn around and sue several different groups: the spring floor manufacturer if it came to them defective, the union at the venue that installed the floor if it's a union facility (if they're not a union facility, the EP typically has their own staff set up the floors).

You are correct. I was referring to just random ACL ruptures, not ones that the EP is actually liable for.

 

[ntlgnt1]

I have heard that part of the motivation for all this is cheerleading has a problem getting insured because of the increased amount of injuries. How many companies currently will insure cheerleading? K&K and ? (I have heard there are only two).

This is a major deal because no insurance means no cheerleading.

Doesn't the EP have cheerleaders sign waivers, which releases them from being liable?

 

[newcheerdad]

There are lots of companies out there that will insure sports inherently more dangerous than cheer. (mixed martial arts comes immediately to mind) So I can't imagine that there's an inability to get insurance.

Now whether premiums have increased to the point that it's becoming cost-prohibitive to run events, and perhaps the tumbling rules are a reaction - that's a different animal. I guess that's possible, but I'm not sure what eliminating standing fulls and doubles would really do to the risk profile of cheer as a whole.

As a percentage of athletes participating in cheer, the number that do standing fulls and doubles is pretty small.

 

[ntlgnt1]

There are lots of companies out there that will insure sports inherently more dangerous than cheer. (mixed martial arts comes immediately to mind) So I can't imagine that there's an inability to get insurance.

Now whether premiums have increased to the point that it's becoming cost-prohibitive to run events, and perhaps the tumbling rules are a reaction - that's a different animal. I guess that's possible, but I'm not sure what eliminating standing fulls and doubles would really do to the risk profile of cheer as a whole.

As a percentage of athletes participating in cheer, the number that do standing fulls and doubles is pretty small.

I've seen more girls hit the ground on standing tucks then i've seen on standing fulls! Not to mention there are VERY FEW TEAMS...AND I MEAN VERY FEW lvl 5 teams that are throwing more then 8 standing fulls in thier routine! F5 is one of those teams throwing a lot of standing fulls! They've had 1 touchdown on a standing full and she was not injured...GO FIGURE!