All-Star Interesting

[catlady]

For us: Travel, non-necessities, rising healthcare deductibles and private lessons to regain or achieve necessary skills.
My thoughts over the years:

1) Winning a National in any sport is a big deal, but if we can't agree on which one of the hundreds of National's is THE National, the mentality will continue to be, the more you attend, the better your chances at being a "National" Champion.

2) Divisions. Fringe divisions that have very few teams across the Nation may be ideal for age and skill level, but it cost a lot to travel to get to their competitors. Either let those fringe divisions travel to their own events or be okay with EP's merging fringe divisions with the next age, but same skill level, at the smaller competitions.

3) Gym owners need to decide what is mandatory, what's not, and let people know what month and how much, so people can budget or pass. If parents are going to be hit with coaches fees, uniform, warm up, choreography, music in the month of July for $1200 they need to know that when they sign up in May.

4) Parents have to stand firm on what they can afford before signing on the dotted line. Don't expect to sign up at All That Plus More All Stars then expect them to adjust to your budget.

5) Be open to the sport evolving. The talent and technique is rising rapidly, but so is the cost of achieving that talent, level of coach expertise and the injury risks. Skiing has alpine, freestyle, cross country and nordic combined in the Olympics and those variations do not make the medals any more or less valuable to the athletes or their fans. In other words, we accept the fact that the bar is continually rising, but is it making it harder to achieve that level of technique and skill level in all cheer categories safely and affordably?

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I will also add that I have always hated the amount of money that parents have to pay to WATCH their own kids.

I know it cuts into profits but I would love to see EPs at least give athletes ONE free spectator ticket.

Major comp admission x 2 parents is getting to be pricey. Add in a sibling or 2 and you could hit $200.

That's a hardship if you are already paying $×00/month to cheer.

 

[ScottyB]

I will also add that I have always hated the amount of money that parents have to pay to WATCH their own kids.

I know it cuts into profits but I would love to see EPs at least give athletes ONE free spectator ticket.

No one is forcing them to be in this industry to profit off families. If they profits aren't enough they will shutter or find new avenues if they want more profits. We are the customers, they should seek our approval and business

 

[Natalia5]

And I really wish that things would be structured, again, more like school cheer with local and regional comps and ONE big nationals, as opposed to what, 8, 9, plus Summit/Worlds? I’d like no more than one comp a season that requires flying or a 10+ hour drive on each end. I know being national champs is a big deal, but when you can be a National champion multiple times in the same season, it loses it’s luster.

^^^^ THIS^^^^ I would love to see AS Cheer go in this direction. It would cut down on cost for many and a true "National Champion" title for every division could be claimed. I also wish more gyms would just do a signature gym or location wide uni that can be used for multiple years that way as someone has already said they can loan/rent or resale the unis within the gym. IMO there is no reason why Levels 1-5 unis (excluding WORLDS level 5) can not look the same. Now, I also get that WORLDS is an elite level and yearly new unis kind of go with the territory but even there I think some teams that are well known could definitely get a signature uni that can become their look and rock them for multiple years KWIM.

 

[ScottyB]

^^^^ THIS^^^^ I would love to see AS Cheer go in this direction. It would cut down on cost for many and a true "National Champion" title for every division could be claimed. I also wish more gyms would just do a signature gym or location wide uni that can be used for multiple years that way as someone has already said they can loan/rent or resale the unis within the gym. IMO there is no reason why Levels 1-5 unis (excluding WORLDS level 5) can not look the same. Now, I also get that WORLDS is an elite level and yearly new unis kind of go with the territory but even there I think some teams that are well known could definitely get a signature uni that can become their look and rock them for multiple years KWIM.

everyone has a national champion and there are so many excess divisions because the EPs recognized the customer service aspect of these competitions (I mean they are run by the same people who forced the trophy generation...)

if more teams come home as winners from your competition: they are happier, they think their money was well spent, they tell their friends and family about the event which lifts the brand up each time, they get a trophy to put up as well as a banner, and they probably (99%) are going to come back the next year to compete (and pay) again.

 

[alpaca]

everyone has a national champion and there are so many excess divisions because the EPs recognized the customer service aspect of these competitions (I mean they are run by the same people who forced the trophy generation...)

if more teams come home as winners from your competition: they are happier, they think their money was well spent, they tell their friends and family about the event which lifts the brand up each time, they get a trophy to put up as well as a banner, and they probably (99%) are going to come back the next year to compete (and pay) again.

I hear what you are saying and I am sad that it is true. I feel that it devalues the competitive aspect of the sport.

Last year I was on a flight where the flight attendants announced that there were National Champion cheerleaders onboard! And yes the kids ate it up. I don't begrudge their happiness. However I was at that competition and there was literally no one else in their division. So they were national Champions by default.

With all the new divisions this year I anticipate seeing more 1st place winners and grand champions at comps where there are divisions with one or two teams. And those will be a waste of my time and money. But it seems that most people think the opposite.

 

[quitthedrama]

I hear what you are saying and I am sad that it is true. I feel that it devalues the competitive aspect of the sport.

Last year I was on a flight where the flight attendants announced that there were National Champion cheerleaders onboard! And yes the kids ate it up. I don't begrudge their happiness. However I was at that competition and there was literally no one else in their division. So they were national Champions by default.

With all the new divisions this year I anticipate seeing more 1st place winners and grand champions at comps where there are divisions with one or two teams. And those will be a waste of my time and money. But it seems that most people think the opposite.

There's the short term affect of Susie winning a "National Championship" that causes parents to dump thousands into that cheer season and possibly 1 or 2 more. Then there is the long term affect of that same National Championship where 3 years later Susie has been to Summit 3 times before she is 12 and has multiple jackets and banners and medals and she has spent 5 days a week in the gym and her parents are broke and sick of booking overpriced hotels and paying $50 to wait in 2 hour lines to maybe be able to get to see their kid if the EP doesn't close access to the arena and have no personal time left to use for anything other than cheer, and they all decide that maybe they would actually like to see the mouse the next time they make a Disney trip and maybe there is more to life and so they quit after 3 years because they are burnt out and tapped out financially. My CP is in her last year. There are probably less than 20 kids who are her age and are still involved that we know from even 5 years ago. The percentage of athletes who stay in cheer until they graduate high school seems far less than what it was even just a couple of years ago. Personally, I like a long term growth business model far better than a short term "get rich quick" scheme but that doesn't seem to be what is happening with the industry.

 

[XtremeWpg]

It is INSANE to me how much American cheer teams travel. Our non worlds teams travel exactly once a season. We do not send teams to NCA or Summit or anything like that. Our worlds team travels 2-3 times, one of which is worlds. They'll travel 1-2 times for a bid as needed as there are none available in our province.

The easy answer is to stop the madness of travel. Our parents had a tough time accepting 1 trip to Alberta, never mind if we told them the season would involved 3+ flights and hotel stay competitions. They'd never have it.

Everyone except our worlds teams have the same uniforms. All full tops, all the same. We keep uniforms for 4 seasons and they're less than $250 CDN ($190 USD). We do all inclusive pricing, with the only not included items being travel cost and uniform since not everyone needs a uniform each year. Oh, and program events that we do as fundraisers aren't included (gym sleepover, team bonding events). We include a biweekly 2 hour tumbling class, a skills camp, choreo, you name it.

Cheerleading does not need to cost $5000 a year. Teams can be considered competitive if they travel 1-2 times. I understand these teams winning worlds have more of a "tour" obligation, but sorry, Jack's Elite All Stars Junior 3 doesn't need to be hauling themselves cross country all year.

 

[ScottyB]

I hear what you are saying and I am sad that it is true. I feel that it devalues the competitive aspect of the sport.

yep, dealing with this on the school side personally this year. uca high school nationals (nhscc) is overflowing now that game day is huge and bids are handed out by score not by quantity of bids. so now the small varsity division is a 3 day comp, stretching our travels and keeping the kids out of school. when I questioned uca, they said too bad. then i asked why rec teams and jv teams are at the national championship and only have a 2 day comp?

their (Varsity/USASF/UCA/etc) focus is on profits now, not sport growth. this is where we all should be upset.

 

[mariahnicole1216]

There's the short term affect of Susie winning a "National Championship" that causes parents to dump thousands into that cheer season and possibly 1 or 2 more. Then there is the long term affect of that same National Championship where 3 years later Susie has been to Summit 3 times before she is 12 and has multiple jackets and banners and medals and she has spent 5 days a week in the gym and her parents are broke and sick of booking overpriced hotels and paying $50 to wait in 2 hour lines to maybe be able to get to see their kid if the EP doesn't close access to the arena and have no personal time left to use for anything other than cheer, and they all decide that maybe they would actually like to see the mouse the next time they make a Disney trip and maybe there is more to life and so they quit after 3 years because they are burnt out and tapped out financially. My CP is in her last year. There are probably less than 20 kids who are her age and are still involved that we know from even 5 years ago. The percentage of athletes who stay in cheer until they graduate high school seems far less than what it was even just a couple of years ago. Personally, I like a long term growth business model far better than a short term "get rich quick" scheme but that doesn't seem to be what is happening with the industry.

I'm seeing this so much in my state. As a high school cheerleader who only did all star in the off-season, I would get so upset seeing high schools lose talented girls to all star teams. Just 5-6 years later, I'm seeing the complete opposite happening. ICE, GymTyme, and CEA are all within an hour of me, and yet when girls make it to high school, they're switching over to school cheer. Illinois HS cheer is ultra competitive, and viewed as a legitimate sport. When you win state, you actually know you were BEST in the state, not just one rinky dink competition. Not to mention, it's so much cheaper. Uniforms are rented, and the furthest comp is probably only two hours away. It's really the best of both worlds for many athletes.

There is no reason that all star can't follow a similar model to school cheer (rent unis, local comps, optional practice wear). I understand there are additional costs to owning a gym and running a business but there are always ways to cut costs.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I'm seeing this so much in my state. As a high school cheerleader who only did all star in the off-season, I would get so upset seeing high schools lose talented girls to all star teams. Just 5-6 years later, I'm seeing the complete opposite happening. ICE, GymTyme, and CEA are all within an hour of me, and yet when girls make it to high school, they're switching over to school cheer. Illinois HS cheer is ultra competitive, and viewed as a legitimate sport. When you win state, you actually know you were BEST in the state, not just one rinky dink competition. Not to mention, it's so much cheaper. Uniforms are rented, and the furthest comp is probably only two hours away. It's really the best of both worlds for many athletes.

There is no reason that all star can't follow a similar model to school cheer (rent unis, local comps, optional practice wear). I understand there are additional costs to owning a gym and running a business but there are always ways to cut costs.

I will say this about all star renting uniforms, it would be a nightmare to administer for our program and we’re not even that big (85 athletes). It’s all fine for small programs or schools but the idea of coordinating rentals for our gym gives me panic sweats

 

[DonnaM]

I will say this about all star renting uniforms, it would be a nightmare to administer for our program and we’re not even that big (85 athletes). It’s all fine for small programs or schools but the idea of coordinating rentals for our gym gives me panic sweats

If you had a gym-wide uniform used on an X year cycle and had an opportunity for uniform swaps, I don’t think you’d need to rent. Many Parents are more than willing to put in that effort to get a good deal-and the others could choose to buy new. But as it stands, pretty much everyone has to buy new, almost every year.

 

[BlueCat]

There is no reason that all star can't follow a similar model to school cheer (rent unis, local comps, optional practice wear). I understand there are additional costs to owning a gym and running a business but there are always ways to cut costs.

I think I understand your overall sentiment, but I have to disagree on some details.

There is often very small marginal cost to joining school cheer. However, they are heavily funded by property and other taxes collected from all over the county/area that cover the vast majority of the expenses (building, utilities, insurance, majority of salary/benefits for employees). If we didn't have to pay for the building, employees, accounting, etc, all star costs could be dramatically cheaper also. Also, many gyms have non-travel programs (all star prep in our area) that involve far less travel and clothing expense.

Managing logistics (and the capital costs) for uniform rental would be unrealistic for most all star programs. The gym would have to pay the full wholesale cost for the uniform up front and hope to recoup the cost over the next several seasons. You would need different size mixes each year, so you would need extra inventory even beyond the number of athletes you had.

 

[ScottyB]

Managing logistics (and the capital costs) for uniform rental would be unrealistic for most all star programs. The gym would have to pay the full wholesale cost for the uniform up front and hope to recoup the cost over the next several seasons. You would need different size mixes each year, so you would need extra inventory even beyond the number of athletes you had.

The cost would only come from having 5-10 different uniforms to switching to having 2-3. Only makes sense if you are trying to keep kids in your program for many years that you would make it easy for families to participate while their kids grows by having a more common program uni.

My hs program (2 teams of 20 each approx, each team has 4-5 unis) does rentals for all, each cheerleader is charged a maintenance and cleaning fee the season. We have about 30 of each uniform to ensure that we can fit all the kids most years.

I think I understand your overall sentiment, but I have to disagree on some details.

There is often very small marginal cost to joining school cheer. However, they are heavily funded by property and other taxes collected from all over the county/area that cover the vast majority of the expenses (building, utilities, insurance, majority of salary/benefits for employees). If we didn't have to pay for the building, employees, accounting, etc, all star costs could be dramatically cheaper also.

i get zero benefits nor does my wife who is the 'head coach' and frankly it isn't much of a salary, and the school does not insure us (a state coaches association does with a yearly fee). the school's facilities we use do have costs covered by the state/etc like you mentioned. but dang it if varsity/uca isn't trying to swindle us into more and more spending each year, so to participate at the elite level, we have to pay up heavy.

i am all for the pushback you guys are creating, still am curious on the 'how' but that probably isn't publicly ready yet.

 

[BlueCat]

i get zero benefits nor does my wife who is the 'head coach' and frankly it isn't much of a salary, and the school does not insure us (a state coaches association does with a yearly fee). the school's facilities we use do have costs covered by the state/etc like you mentioned. but dang it if varsity/uca isn't trying to swindle us into more and more spending each year, so to participate at the elite level, we have to pay up heavy.

i am all for the pushback you guys are creating, still am curious on the 'how' but that probably isn't publicly ready yet.

I didn't mean to suggest that school coaches are necessarily well-compensated. However, in MOST cases, the salary - meager though it may be - comes from taxes/school budget and not directly from the "fees" paid for cheerleading.

None of this is a knock on school cheer at all. However, comparing the marginal costs to the athlete for each is a little misleading sometimes.

Regarding the "plan", I believe it was mainly to just get on the same page with some of the "easy" stuff first. (By "easy", I mean generally agreed-upon changes that would benefit gyms of all sizes.). My understanding is that the group would want to get more diverse representation and discussion before coming up with an extensive plan of action.