International 4.2 at Worlds

[King]

When worlds is live streamed eventually that will greatly reduce the just fans there. And if it was just top ten and streamed I think it be even more a ghost town.

I do agree they wont reduce the teams by that much, so, that is what this thread was proposing. Practical, not ideological solutions. Ones where the cash cow gets to stay but things are improved.

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[youbetterwork]

International teams doesn't attend club divisions because of the age restriction. Here (Europe) you become a senior when you're about 15. The ages in the senior teams are often between 15 and 25 (older people in coed especially). Yes, the scandinavian cheerleading federations could change this to 12, but I think we're far away from that. Everything goes slow, we embrace little by little. 2010 was the first year Sweden was even ALLOWED to compete at Worlds.

I don't like the level 4.2 idea. Right now I think it's good as it is. International teams don't attend Worlds to win. They attend to show off their skills (a lot of teams do have skills, like level 5-6 stunting skills), get INSPIRATION and be motivated to keep working hard. We do work hard too.

Group stunt categories is quite popular here. ICU Worlds do offer the all female group stunt category, that I think is great.

 

[youbetterwork]

I think it would be great if the rules, age restrictions and score sheets all over the world got more alike. It's soooo different rules between countries. Right now teams have to keep changing their routines from competition to competition, depending where the competition is being held or which federation who organize it.

(Sorry if I'm getting off track. Just a thought I got.)

 

[King]

What is the age in your country where someone stops being a minor and is considered an adult?

 

[youbetterwork]

What is the age in your country where someone stops being a minor and is considered an adult?

18. What have this to do with everything? :)

 

[King]

Well, the reason our ages are the way they are in club divisions is that culturally we separate minors from adults in sports. The only division that mixes at all is IOC5.

What is the reason for making the senior age 15? (this isn't an attack, I am just trying to understand it. our cutoff naturally happens when you graduate high school / become an adult)

 

[Stuntmandan]

I would also have to say that the age of international athletes is the reason a lot of the teams can not enter in the club division. I know in New Zealand we get a lot of the teams with athletes14 to 20+ on them and with our current pool of athletes to pull from its hard for teams to put together a true level 5 senior team to enter the club division.
I do agree that the international score sheet shouldn't be changed just because we come from another country to win a competition like worlds I feel you need to be good at all aspects of cheer just like you have to be to win in the club division. I feel it also means international lose focus on tumbling and end up not getting any better at it. Is that what we want for the future of cheerleading internationally? I want to see international teams enter club divisions and be truly competitive in them but when they can enter a division where their tumbling isn't as important I don't think it will happen.

 

[youbetterwork]

Well, the reason our ages are the way they are in club divisions is that culturally we separate minors from adults in sports. The only division that mixes at all is IOC5.

What is the reason for making the senior age 15? (this isn't an attack, I am just trying to understand it. our cutoff naturally happens when you graduate high school / become an adult)

I'm not saying everyone should change to 15, I think Europe should change to 12. To make it more alike the US and to make it easier to compete internationally.
Just saying it's almost not possible for European teams to compete in club divisions because of the rules. Just trying to explain for the people who says international teams are welcome to compete in the club divisions too.

 

[King]

I'm not saying everyone should change to 15, I think Europe should change to 12. To make it more alike the US and to make it easier to compete internationally.
Just saying it's almost not possible for European teams to compete in club divisions because of the rules. Just trying to explain for the people who says international teams are welcome to compete in the club divisions too.

I didn't mean it was bad, im just trying to understand it. Like why was 15 chosen. There is a good reason, im just ignorant of it.

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[youbetterwork]

I didn't mean it was bad, im just trying to understand it. Like why was 15 chosen. There is a good reason, im just ignorant of it.

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Don't ask me! Lol
But I think they want to keep people in junior for a while. Because peewee is 10-13, junior 12-16 and senior 15+. We are allowed to have 25 % of the team under 15 in senior, but not at Europeans. So the teams that intend to attend Europeans don't choose to have that.
I think all the age restrictions are too high though. Peewee and junior too.

But is the age restrictions in the US made like that because a lot attend college after 18? We can't cheer at our universities, so if they would make it maximum 18/19 a lot of people couldn't cheer anymore. We have 3 (!!) senior coed teams right now. Same with Finland. If we would change to both international and club divisions it wouldn't work.

 

[King]

Don't ask me! Lol
But I think they want to keep people in junior for a while. Because peewee is 10-13, junior 12-16 and senior 15+. We are allowed to have 25 % of the team under 15 in senior, but not at Europeans. So the teams that intend to attend Europeans don't choose to have that.
I think all the age restrictions are too high though. Peewee and junior too.

But is the age restrictions in the US made like that because a lot attend college after 18? We can't cheer at our universities, so if they would make it maximum 18/19 a lot of people couldn't cheer anymore. We have 3 (!!) senior coed teams right now. Same with Finland. If we would change to both international and club divisions it wouldn't work.

Yeah, college cheer happens after 18. That and open.

 

[ACEDAD]

I didn't mean it was bad, im just trying to understand it. Like why was 15 chosen. There is a good reason, im just ignorant of it.

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King, you're comparing her 15 to our 18. But she's saying that's the age you start in the senior division, not stop. Ours is 12.

So club ages are 12-18 in the US. For her country, its 15-25.

 

[King]

King, you're comparing her 15 to our 18. But she's saying that's the age you start in the senior division, not stop. Ours is 12.

So club ages are 12-18 in the US. For her country, its 15-25.

You are thinking cutoffs, I am thinking demographics.

The 12-18 demographic is a lot different than the 15-25 demographic. To them their club essentially is 15-25. It is not a straight apples to oranges comparison. It is a whole other philosophy. They are going to have plenty of athletes monetarily self sufficient and possibly having wives and lives stunting with 15 year olds.

We have 12 - 18 year olds who are all still kids. The grouping is what I am more interested in. Why that grouping.

 

[King]

I'll expand. Our club groupings are all based on our public school system. We make a distinction that once a kid is an adult, done with school, they are no longer fit to compete with kids in school.

Except in international 5, which is not based on US ideas at all. Their international 5 is based on a whole other philosophy. Most likely because their START age is 15. If they made it a 15 - 18 worlds eligible they would probably limit themselves out of a ton of athletes.

So finding out the root reason for all that is what I am trying to do.

 

[wcdad]

What if Cheerleading followed the same format that Little league does. The following example is very simple but it shows the format.

Teams would compete at States. The top 2 or 3 teams would then go and compete at regionals.

The top 2 or 3 teams would then compete at Nationals.

The winners of Nationals would then compete for the World Championship.

It would allow all countries to compete with the best teams from the countries.

Under this format you could have a world champion for each level of cheerleading and no single country would dominate the field.

Just a thought for conversation.