High School Interpreting New Rules...

[ScottyG978]

Hey all, so I'm not sure If I'm the only one with questions or not, but I'm slightly confused on some of the new rules. Mostly, because I haven't seen them in action yet, I'm not sure where to draw the line with some things. First off, I was curious about suspended backward rolls..

Backward suspended rolls are permitted only from the performing surface provided the top person maintains continuous hand-to-hand/arm contact with two posts who control the top person back to the performing surface.

I'd like to simply assume that this stunt can occur with the flyer and just 2 others (bases). Just grabbing hands and the flyer more or less doing an oddly spotted back tuck with hand holding. No backspot is required.. I dont think.. Now I want to make these look a little more like college-style rewinds. So 2 main questions are.. can the posts hold hands with one arm, and throw rewind style with the other arm, and as the flyer comes back down, brace armpit or something? All while maintaining hand/hand contact? Also, can 2 posts hold arms, such as front and backspots, and bases completely throw like a college rewind, both arms and all, as long as 2 posts maintain hand contact? This would in my opinion provide much more height and an impressive stunt to the flip.

Second, when the rules say you are only allowed a 'switch-up liberty' as a release move, does that mean you can ONLY go to a lib? Or are switch-up stretches free game as well? The wording confused me.

Lastly, I honestly can't remember where it said something that made me think this is legal, but are superman style cradles now legal from preps? Like, prep, pop the flyer and she cradles to her stomach. The backspot may maintain ankle contact through the entire transition. This would be without a post. Legal or not? Sorry for being vague on this one!

 

[ScottyG978]

Also, I forgot to mention I'm referring to AACCA's rule book! Not NFHS!

 

[coach.elle]

How I read the rules about backward suspended rolls, was that it had to start on the ground, and land on the ground. So any rewind type stunt would not work. It MIGHT be okay to have 2 posts that grab one arm. I know that level 4 all stars used to be able to do this due to a loop hole in how the rule read. They would have 2 bracers at elevator grab one arm on one side of a top girl, and she would flip. You may get called on this though.
The rule reads:
"Backward suspended rolls are permitted only from the performing surface provided the top person maintains continuous hand-to-hand/arm contact with two posts who control the top person back to the performing surface."

As far as the switch ups go, this is what it says about a Switch up Liberty in the glossary section:
Switch Liberty: A stunt in which the top person begins with one foot on the performing surface, is released from the bases, and lands in a stunt on the other foot.
It just says you must land on the other foot, it doesn't specify body position. I can't imagine them allowing switch up libs and not stretches. I think they are just using the word "liberty" to say that it is a one footed stunt.

The rule about the "super man cradles" looks like this:
A top person may be moved from a vertical position to a face up or face down straight body horizontal position provided all the following conditions are met:

1. The top person maintains contact with at least one original base or spotter.
2. Two or more additional catchers/bases catch the upper body of the top person.
3. When the catchers are not the original bases, the top person may not begin in or pass through an extended overhead position.
4. The catchers remain close to the original bases and must be in place prior to the movement to the horizontal position.
5. The base(s) do not turn.
6. The base(s) has/have constant visual contact with the catchers.

So yes, if the backspot hangs on to the ankles, and the flier does not fall away from the bases, it is legal. It also can't start in extension.

Hope this helps! It will be an interesting year to see what everyone comes up with.

 

[Corsicab]

I think they need two more catchers/bases to do a superman cradle as well as the spotter hanging on to the ankles.

 

[ScottyG978]

thanks for the feedback guys!! Okay so my switch up stretch question is answered. Now let me clarify..

As far as the suspended backwards roll, I'm sorry if I wasn't specific but I know of the fact that it needs to begin AND end on the ground. What I was asking was that in addition to maintaining hand contact, if bases could throw with the other hand for more height. Still touching ground after the flip. Same thing with the front and backspots holding arms and bases throwing full out rewind with both arms (but flyer landing on the ground). I'm thinking the possibilities of x-outs and layouts being done with the extra power. It doesn't say whether or not additional force may be added to the roll.

Also, if additional power may be added to the initial throw, could bracing be performed on the way down? So say they bases could add extra power to the flip, and the flyer does a very high tuck, could they brace the landing like a reverse quick-toss. So catch thighs high and guide to the ground on the landing. Feet will touch ground before and after flip but Idk if grabbing the flyer before the stunt makes it not count as 'ending on the ground.' Perhaps I'm looking too closely for things to be illegal and should just take the rules for what they say, but you can never be too careful

Now I'm getting 2 different impressions as far as the superman goes.. according the the rules...

1. The top person maintains contact with at least one original base or spotter.
2. Two or more additional catchers/bases catch the upper body of the top person.
3. When the catchers are not the original bases, the top person may not begin in or pass through an extended overhead position.
4. The catchers remain close to the original bases and must be in place prior to the movement to the horizontal position.
5. The base(s) do not turn.
6. The base(s) has/have constant visual contact with the catchers.

Number 1 is set with the back maintaining ankle contact. However, number 2 I can see as being taken 2 ways.. it means you need either 2 or more people catching, whether they're additional or the same ones. Also, in number 3, the wording 'when the catchers are not the orginal bases' implies that you can have the option of having the original bases catch. The super man will be from prep level so no extension. So is it save to assume that a prep superman is legal with just a normal group? Also, could you forward roll out of it?

 

[Corsicab]

Yeah, that wording confuses me because to have additional catchers/bases sounds like you need more than the original two. But they could also mean additional to the one original base or spotter. And 3. sound like it could be the original bases but then in 4. it says they have to remain close to the original bases. Then 6. mentions the bases and catchers separately.

Anyone else want to try and interpret this?

I am very confused now!!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Ok, if it is like AACCA last year you didn't need extra. A lot of teams fell to prone position and then did a forward roll or front walkover out, however it had to STOP in the prone position and that position needed to be below shoulder level.

 

[ScottyG978]

So the prone landing needs to stop, then forward roll? So it cant be a catch and fluidly roll out?

and last question. And I feel I know the answer, it's just to clarify.. In tic toc variations, there are very few in high school that are possible without being braced. Last year tic tocs were legal not only as switch ups, but if you maintained motion between the tic tocs (extension lib, power press where you tic toc at the top of the press).. so with the new rules of..
A Release Stunt must either be cradled or connected to at least one bracer

and..

In multi-based tosses that land in a stunt or loading position the following rules apply:

1. The top person must begin with both feet on the ground. The bases can apply an upward force on any part of the body other than under the foot.The exception to this rule is the following:
   1. Switch Liberties are allowed.

Do these eliminate the posibility of any other tic toc variations other than a switch up. what I'm referring to is a stretch from a sponge which will be thrown and land in the opposite stretch.

Here's a video of the stunt. It starts at 25 seconds, and the best group to watch is the group just right of the middle, they dont have a front spot to block your vision

!

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I know it could be fluid but once in the prone, you can't LIFT the top up and chuck her out, there needs to be the difinitive stop.

As for the rest, GREAT questions. It seems as tick-tocks in pyramids are legal b/c they are braced the entire time. Otherwise, I think an email to Jim Lord for clarification is in order!

 

[coach.elle]

It was my understanding that switch ups are only legal if they start with one foot on the ground.
Switch Liberty: A stunt in which the top person begins with one foot on the performing surface, is released from the bases, and lands in a stunt on the other foot.
I also don't see anything mentioning how fluid a stunt may be to make it legal. That stunt looks like it should have been illegal last year too. Low to high ticks are, and have been for the past year or so illegal. Its considered a release move. It is only legal if the backspot grabs the ankle that she is about to switch to.

 

[ScottyG978]

I have a feeling that they're illegal this year, but last year they were. Last year there was a line in the rules under partner stunts which said stationary tic tocs are illegal. You could tic toc from a lower location to a higher. But fake tic tocs where the back grabs ankle are still legal correct? Not technically a release then.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Bet bet again, check w/ Jim Lord. Instead of asking on FB here where we all aren't sure and have a million thoughts, it's the best bet!

 

[MissBee]

Dear Jim,

Please make a series of videos highlighting common stunts that are now legal and illegal under the new AACCA rules. It will save you a ton of time answering the same questions over and over again.

Thanks,
MissBee

 

[coach.elle]

My biggest questions are about the "Inversions below shoulder level" rules. I understand that it means you can do a handstand in a thigh stand. But then what? Can you cradle from it? Can you pop to a load? Can you walk down from it? Because to me that means its a backwards "flip", and then it is suppose to start and end on the ground, with 2 hands from bases hanging on the whole time. I don't think this rule is defined clearly enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?....besides telling me to ask Jim.

 

[SarahS]

My biggest questions are about the "Inversions below shoulder level" rules. I understand that it means you can do a handstand in a thigh stand. But then what? Can you cradle from it? Can you pop to a load? Can you walk down from it? Because to me that means its a backwards "flip", and then it is suppose to start and end on the ground, with 2 hands from bases hanging on the whole time. I don't think this rule is defined clearly enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?....besides telling me to ask Jim.

This, exactly. I wish the rules had "borrowed" from USASF's rules more specifically (as in, verbatim, lol) since it seems that all star rules are a bit more vetted for gray areas... and the gray areas that exist are further clarified throughout the year with examples of exactly what is legal and not by innovative programs that push boundaries and force legal clarifications. I don't see that happening in high school cheer. I mean, seriously, the judges at our local county school competition allowed all kinds of inversions this past year when the rules pretty much couldn't be clearer about them being completely illegal - I can't wait to see what crazy things people come up with as "legal" with all of these not-exactly-clear rules.