All-Star Is Cea Over?

[Sterling von Shimmer]

Y’all see where the gymnastics coach was arrested? He has ties to nessar

Aaand he killed himself.

Former U.S. gymnastics coach dies by suicide after arrest for alleged sex crimes in Michigan

 

[Knowcheering]

Yikes! I will repeat: This generation uses social media to speak their truth. Love it or hate it its their medium of choice. Some of those kids are receiving compassion there as well.

People always doubt kids when they recollect abuse and it amazes me. They blame the victims who were children at the time these things were happening. How can there be any ambiquity about child molestation, attempted rape, or rampant drug use? Where is the middle truth? "I copped the coke my coach snorted?" "She was (sexy, asking for it, wearing Nike pros) so the coach invited her to his room?" How does that work?

The bottom line is coaches shouldn't throw chairs at kids, they should not call kids "stupid", they shouldn't grab kids, groom 13yo for future sexual relationships, sleep w/kids parents, sleep w/their athletes, grope kids or encourage them to use illegal substances. Those are toxic behaviors and lead to mental illness. Saying someone develops an eating disorder because the are a perfectionist & not because an adult they loved demanded perfection, is splitting hairs. People on these boards have been derided for saying some of the things those young people alleged. Is their truth somewhere in the middle?
How sure are u that these things are complete semi-falsehoods created by easily insulted kids?
Would you bet your minor child on it?

You replied to my post with "Yikes", but I actually agree with much of what you said. I'm very aware that this generation turns to social media to vent, and they will do so whether I like it or not, I just find it unfortunate and not very constructive. It would be safer and easier for people to be able to turn privately to something like SafeSport to report sexual abuse, drug use, etc, but that organization is still in its infancy and has its own problems.

I don't see anyone here doubting the truth of kids' stories about rape, drugs, being groomed by coaches, being told to drink out of a toilet, etc. Kids don't invent these things in their heads. But a few kids are chiming in with stories that are less severe and have more of a grey area, or may be more complex than a 280 character tweet. I merely stated that issues such as eating disorders are very complex and there's often way more to it than, "My coach was so mean and took me out of the air!" We could also debate forever about screaming vs yelling and how much yelling is okay.

Some kids have mentioned that their coaches had favorites and didn't give every kid equal attention, and I'm thinking, how would it be possible for one coach to give equal attention to every single child even in the smallest of gyms? And how much attention from a coach is even appropriate? Maybe your more-talented or more-hard-working teammate got more praise/attention than you. Maybe your coach never has to raise her voice at the super-talented kid who is very self-motivated and always does what she's told. This is a normal part of life. Now, if your story is something like, "my coach called me a fat pig that can't fly and put me in the back even though I'm the best one on the team", that's a different story. But not everyone's story is that extreme. A problem with Twitter is you have to sift through the nonsense to get to the actual serious claims, which are often barely written in full sentences in order to cram them into a 3 sentence tweet. But again, if you like that app and get something out of it, great.

 

[Knowcheering]

It's absolutely possible, I am witnessing it happen in our current gym right now. Going on 4 seasons, multiple coaches... there has never been one time I felt like the coaching went too far. Has there been yelling? Of course.... that's not a big deal.

It's when the yelling goes into what a piece of $hit you are personally vs why you messed up your stunt for the 80th time, that the line is crossed.

Oh, and as for success- she's won I think 2 Summit rings, 2 NCA titles, Champions League and a bronze medal from Worlds. So plenty of success without having to sacrifice mental health.

The line between tough coaching and abuse is very clear. Raising your voice is not abuse. Being tough with a kid is not abuse. Frustration is not abuse. Personally insulting kids or intentionally humiliating them IS abuse. It's really very simple.

You summed it up well. Yelling or raising your voice is totally fine and necessary sometimes (whether you're a coach, teacher, parent, etc), but it can't cross the line into needless personal attacks/humiliation/cursing. It's okay to yell when a kid drops her flyer on the floor for the third time that day, but it's obviously not okay to spit on a kid and call her a dumb piece of $hit that will never go anywhere in life. I read about the gymnastics coach Maggie Haney who got suspended and these are the types of horrible things she would tell her gymnasts, as if that would help them perform.

But some yelling isn't a big deal. I'm guessing there's not a gym in this country, big or small, that's been around long enough and is worth anything that has never had anyone yell. A gym would be an undisciplined zoo if the coaches weren't allowed to ever get upset or raise their voice. Gyms have hundreds of kids that need to be kept in line and motivated. Whether you're Level 1 or Level 6, sometimes a change in a coach's tone can be the motivation you need to try harder, get it together, get energized after a tiring day at school, etc. Most people are not so self-motivated that they can train themselves without a coach ever getting on them. A coach's job is to get the most out of an athlete, which sometimes requires being tough. I've done everything from rec cheer to Worlds level cheer and there was some yelling on occasion at every level, but it was never overboard or crossed a line.

There's also a matter a safety, where if a cheerleader is being lackadaisical and careless that day, it could be detrimental to not only herself but the rest of the team. I would be more concerned by a gym that didn't have any yelling and felt like a free-for-all than I would be by one that actually cares. This is a sport, not a McDonalds playroom. Also, cheer gyms are obviously big open spaces, and you have to raise your voice sometimes just to give corrections. It's important that kids know to not take "normal" yelling personally. I myself am a perfectionist and could barely handle getting corrected on anything without dwelling on it for the rest of the day, even though I knew it was completely normal and necessary.

Coaching is evolving in all sports, and not everything that was acceptable decades ago is acceptable today. Allstar cheer has only been around a couple decades or so, and coaches are learning right along with the kids. Coaches have learned that they don't have to coach through fear and intimidation; they can lift the kids up instead of beating them down. They can get kids to perform at the highest level for themselves, not because they're afraid of a coach. Sometimes coaches get frustrated or overreact-- it can be stressful having to please hundreds of kids and their parents-- but it usually doesn't cross a line. It's repeated patterns of serious misbehavior that go on for years and years that are concerning.

 

[SparkleSparkleSparkle]

Who still anytime there is cheer drama takes to Twitter. We are at another location but I have seen first hand the lies that parents spread when they feel their kid didn’t get what they deserve. Not that I’m saying it didn’t happen because maybe it did. But from my experience the main source of drama is parents. The coaching isn’t harsh but once you get to the worlds teams it is cut throat, your spot can be taken at any time. And when this happens parents react in the craziest ways. My main complaint I’ve had about CEA is I’ve never seen more self entitled people in my life. This season kids who didn’t get placed where they wanted left the gym and went to a local gym that put them where the parents felt they belonged. Entitled parents create entitled children. Which causes ridiculous behavior. In all actuality she didn’t bring back 2 coaches this season she had took on from a gym closure because she felt the coaching was too harsh. But none of this is about kernersville, just Raleigh.

This was brought to my attention by another parent, so I’m going to address it - and in the process, out myself to many who are actually familiar with the situation at CEA Raleigh. I am one of those “entitled” parents who pulled their child. To call all the parents and kids who left the gym entitled is pretty amusing. Most were following the coach who was let go, and many others stopped cheering at all (over half of my daughter’s team from last year left the gym). I would say that in my time at CEA I witnessed a crazy level of entitlement from parents who are still there, tbh.

I’ll tell you exactly why my daughter’s at a different gym (where she’s thriving and incredibly happy).

We found out during the tryout process that “her coach” - the one CP had most bonded with - the one she had virtual privates with during quarantine - had been let go from CEA Raleigh. The owner pulled me into the gym while my child was tumbling to (I assume) do damage control. My kid had been at this gym for 2 years, I was a team mom this past year - and this was the second time that the owner had ever spoken to me in a conversation. (The first time was when CP decided that she wanted to try All Star and the owner told us how glad she was, because she [my child] was “so pretty, and we can’t teach pretty” ). During this second ever conversation, she went through some of her thought process of why she had let said coach go. What stood out to me once I had time to process: the coach had the girls wear buns and leggings, the coach wanted kids to crossover, it was ultimately a financial decision (which is the only one of these reasons that I can totally respect), that the lower level program was good - and therefore, she didn’t ‘need’ said coach anymore (but she was happy to give her information to her sister, b/c they DID need that lower level improvement), and finally, that CEA Raleigh is a “Worlds Gym”. At the time, I told her that it was her business, so she got to decide how that business is run, and that we wouldn’t be going anywhere - which, it turns out was not true, but once I had time to think about what had been said, I realized that I’d possibly lied to her.

After I broke the news to my CP, she cried. A lot. I acknowledge - former coach pushes the kids and is tough. But that’s the kind of coaching my CP prefers. She was also (out of all the coaches in the gym) one of like 3 or 4 coaches who prioritized lower level teams and really cared about how those teams did.

I had to drop something off from last season to former coach at her new gym, so CP went along and ended up tumbling with her. She came out so happy - at that point, I was pretty sure she’d be following. The night she had a panic attack before practice at CEA was the night I KNEW she’d be following. I pay money for this. It’s supposed to be fun for my kid. She was not having fun.

Here’s the thing. My CP started AS at 11 years old. Worlds is not her goal. She wants to be on teams that are her appropriate level and are competitive. She wants to be on teams that are well thought out and not just a dumping ground for whomever is left. She wants to be on teams that matter to the gym. She wants to win on whatever level team she’s on.

I stand behind what I said to CEA’s owner. It IS her business. She does get to make the decisions. But in the end, I’m her customer. I’m the one paying the bills. I get to decide where I spend my money. Ultimately - it wasn’t a good fit for my child and we decided to follow to the new gym. I wish CEA Raleigh nothing but the best. We’ve cheered for teams from the gym with athletes and coaches with whom we have relationships and we will continue to do so.

I’ve kept this to my family’s experiences (there are more, but these are most of the major reasons CP is somewhere else).

In the meantime, the implication that the new gym just caved to parental pressure is goofy. CP’s team has been incredibly successful this year and has done very well - as have all the teams from this gym - I believe they are an up and coming program to watch out for. The gym owners are engaged with every team, and know every kid. The atmosphere is contagious. The support of the entire program for every single team is simply inspiring.

 

[NCCheerMama]

This was brought to my attention by another parent, so I’m going to address it - and in the process, out myself to many who are actually familiar with the situation at CEA Raleigh. I am one of those “entitled” parents who pulled their child. To call all the parents and kids who left the gym entitled is pretty amusing. Most were following the coach who was let go, and many others stopped cheering at all (over half of my daughter’s team from last year left the gym). I would say that in my time at CEA I witnessed a crazy level of entitlement from parents who are still there, tbh.

I’ll tell you exactly why my daughter’s at a different gym (where she’s thriving and incredibly happy).

We found out during the tryout process that “her coach” - the one CP had most bonded with - the one she had virtual privates with during quarantine - had been let go from CEA Raleigh. The owner pulled me into the gym while my child was tumbling to (I assume) do damage control. My kid had been at this gym for 2 years, I was a team mom this past year - and this was the second time that the owner had ever spoken to me in a conversation. (The first time was when CP decided that she wanted to try All Star and the owner told us how glad she was, because she [my child] was “so pretty, and we can’t teach pretty” ). During this second ever conversation, she went through some of her thought process of why she had let said coach go. What stood out to me once I had time to process: the coach had the girls wear buns and leggings, the coach wanted kids to crossover, it was ultimately a financial decision (which is the only one of these reasons that I can totally respect), that the lower level program was good - and therefore, she didn’t ‘need’ said coach anymore (but she was happy to give her information to her sister, b/c they DID need that lower level improvement), and finally, that CEA Raleigh is a “Worlds Gym”. At the time, I told her that it was her business, so she got to decide how that business is run, and that we wouldn’t be going anywhere - which, it turns out was not true, but once I had time to think about what had been said, I realized that I’d possibly lied to her.

After I broke the news to my CP, she cried. A lot. I acknowledge - former coach pushes the kids and is tough. But that’s the kind of coaching my CP prefers. She was also (out of all the coaches in the gym) one of like 3 or 4 coaches who prioritized lower level teams and really cared about how those teams did.

I had to drop something off from last season to former coach at her new gym, so CP went along and ended up tumbling with her. She came out so happy - at that point, I was pretty sure she’d be following. The night she had a panic attack before practice at CEA was the night I KNEW she’d be following. I pay money for this. It’s supposed to be fun for my kid. She was not having fun.

Here’s the thing. My CP started AS at 11 years old. Worlds is not her goal. She wants to be on teams that are her appropriate level and are competitive. She wants to be on teams that are well thought out and not just a dumping ground for whomever is left. She wants to be on teams that matter to the gym. She wants to win on whatever level team she’s on.

I stand behind what I said to CEA’s owner. It IS her business. She does get to make the decisions. But in the end, I’m her customer. I’m the one paying the bills. I get to decide where I spend my money. Ultimately - it wasn’t a good fit for my child and we decided to follow to the new gym. I wish CEA Raleigh nothing but the best. We’ve cheered for teams from the gym with athletes and coaches with whom we have relationships and we will continue to do so.

I’ve kept this to my family’s experiences (there are more, but these are most of the major reasons CP is somewhere else).

In the meantime, the implication that the new gym just caved to parental pressure is goofy. CP’s team has been incredibly successful this year and has done very well - as have all the teams from this gym - I believe they are an up and coming program to watch out for. The gym owners are engaged with every team, and know every kid. The atmosphere is contagious. The support of the entire program for every single team is simply inspiring.

I hope all success at your new gym. I know the owners as they were with my two CP at another gym (that gym lasted for two seasons) and one of them was actually a coach for one of CP teams. The coach that left CEA-I know also as she was coach at another previous gym and the year she came to CEA was our first full year there. As you can see All Star cheer in this area is VERY intertwined. Most everyone that coaches has coached with each other at one point or another either as all star gyms or at NCSU. I have seen the success of your new gym over the past four years and think they are very much in tune with families.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Just popping in here quick to mention:
I think a lot of people VASTLY overestimate what police can/can't do (or will/won't do) when it comes to things like rape, abuse, stalking, etc. I, unfortunately, have been in several situations where I've tried to report certain things I was SURE the police would handle. They wouldn't even write a report. When I mentioned it, people were SHOCKED they wouldn't do anything- but many laws aren't updated for the digital age or even the realities of how these things occur. Also sometimes, let's be honest- the cops don't care. I'm not a minor, they're not going to get in trouble for ignoring me or downplaying it.

When it comes to 'tough' coaching, I wonder how much of it has to do with coaches learning their style from other coaches or from how they were coached as athletes? There are a LOT of people who run the 'Coaches did XYZ thing or said ABC to me and I turned out fine!' route, and ooooh goodness. No. You're perpetuating a terrible cycle and that's NOT fine. I've seem some coaches change their style (my sister's old BBall coach used to flip ball racks until it was HIS daughter he was coaching- now he's mellowed out considerably). But if you've been raised in that 'Old School Shouting the House Down Toughen Up' mentality, it's not surprising if they, unfortunately, turn around and repeat it. I'm glad we've been making the change out of those behaviors.

 

[4D3CHEER!]

cheer world is getting darker and it makes me very sad

i read on Instagram that CEA is probably not the only one :( Stingrays and California Allstars too. is it true?

 

[4D3CHEER!]

Reading tweets from Ladarius really shocked me. I never thought that Navarro will do some unbelievable things to their athletes. It got me speechless

 

[catlady]

cheer world is getting darker and it makes me very sad

i read on Instagram that CEA is probably not the only one :( Stingrays and California Allstars too. is it true?

In the US you can: 1) Report a person, but no further action is taken 2) Report a person, an investigation is done, and no charges are made 3) Report a person, an investigation is made, and the person is charged with a crime 4) A rumor is spread with no actual substantiation, doesn't get reported, and people just say, "you need to watch out for that person"

We don't know what these gym's have and have not done, people are assuming. In the US, employers keep that information private and can be sued if they say something about a person that is unsubstantiated. Unfortunately, what often happens in the US with predators, is the employer fires them, a report is/isn't made, no further action is taken, and they go elsewhere and get a job.

As far as Ladarius, I will never deny a person their experiences, thoughts, opinions or feelings on something. With that said, Twitter should not be treated as an authority on guilt or innocence, and we should not be assuming, nor acting, as judge, jury or executioner. Hopefully, he has taken his information to the appropriate people/authorities where something can actually be done, and action taken, if true.

 

[UCFKnights07]

In the US you can: 1) Report a person, but no further action is taken 2) Report a person, an investigation is done, and no charges are made 3) Report a person, an investigation is made, and the person is charged with a crime 4) A rumor is spread with no actual substantiation, doesn't get reported, and people just say, "you need to watch out for that person"

We don't know what these gym's have and have not done, people are assuming. In the US, employers keep that information private and can be sued if they say something about a person that is unsubstantiated. Unfortunately, what often happens in the US with predators, is the employer fires them, a report is/isn't made, no further action is taken, and they go elsewhere and get a job.

As far as Ladarius, I will never deny a person their experiences, thoughts, opinions or feelings on something. With that said, Twitter should not be treated as an authority on guilt or innocence, and we should not be assuming, nor acting, as judge, jury or executioner. Hopefully, he has taken his information to the appropriate people/authorities where something can actually be done, and action taken, if true.

while i agree, i feel like in these days sometimes social media works better at providing justice then actually going to the police. Enough people making complaints/accusations/etc on social media tends to get far more attention, then filing a report and then sitting and waiting for the authorities to actually do something. While i dont necessarily agree with only turning to social media to try and get action from people to actually do something, its proven time and time again that sometimes it does work better, then complaining to the source through different means.

 

[catlady]

while i agree, i feel like in these days sometimes social media works better at providing justice then actually going to the police. Enough people making complaints/accusations/etc on social media tends to get far more attention, then filing a report and then sitting and waiting for the authorities to actually do something. While i dont necessarily agree with only turning to social media to try and get action from people to actually do something, its proven time and time again that sometimes it does work better, then complaining to the source through different means.

Social media is good for attention. It is good for getting others to come out with like experiences. What it isn't good at is justice. It doesn't provide investigation. It forms opinions before the other side has a chance to speak, if they aren't just shut down or "canceled." During "Me Too" there were people coming forward that were not truthful and there was documentation presented to prove these people weren't where they were claimed to be. Did they get the dates mixed up? Did they get the place mixed up? Did they claim these things thinking it had been too long to prove otherwise? Who knows, but everyone deserves a trial to share their side and Twitter is extremely bad for shutting out the opposing side and forming lasting opinions guilty or not.

 

[SmileyRyleigh]

I'm old and haven't posted in AWHILE but I've been keeping up with this since it was trending on twitter and decided to log back into good ole fierceboard to see what everyone was saying. It's heartbreaking to see all of these athletes come forward and have their experiences discredited on social media just because someone else didn't have the same experience.
As a young child, even a teenager, if you come forward to an adult you trust with some level of concerns and accusations of abuse and they seem to shrug it off, it's natural for you to do so as well. They didn't think it was a problem, you think maybe you were just over reacting-etc. As you get older, for some reason it still sticks with you. You realize maybe that adult you trusted was protecting the other adult, and you don't notice until you're removed from the situation. As coaches and parents in the industry, WE HAVE TO LOOK OUT FOR OUR ATHLETES. I don't care if they're the greatest coach in the world and you think your program would be nothing without them- one day they're going to mess with the wrong kid and you're going to find yourself in a lawsuit, and then your program really will be nothing. Coaches can be replaced, but the reputation of your program and your staff is something that's going to be difficult to recover from. Schools take abuse allegations seriously whether it's the parent or the teacher and this industry needs to as well.
As for athletes going to social media to call attention to issues instead of police, not playing devils advocate here, but maybe they have and nothing was done. I've had multiple friends file a case for rape and it honestly just sat there for months without any progress. We have a great legal system in the states-occasionally. Unfortunately we live in an era where people do tend to go to social media with their issues when they feel they aren't being handled correctly by people higher up. The way I saw it is these athletes are posting their experiences to bring awareness so other people don't have to go through what they went through. We can't judge whether someone is depressed or has PTSD just because something that they've been through may not have affected you as it did them. Thats the thing- everyone handles how they cope with their experiences differently.
I'm really glad I got out of allstar cheer when I did (2014) because I really feel like it's just become one big game of fame-no matter what the cost.

 

[catlady]

As for athletes going to social media to call attention to issues instead of police, not playing devils advocate here, but maybe they have and nothing was done. I've had multiple friends file a case for rape and it honestly just sat there for months without any progress. We have a great legal system in the states-occasionally. Unfortunately we live in an era where people do tend to go to social media with their issues when they feel they aren't being handled correctly by people higher up. The way I saw it is these athletes are posting their experiences to bring awareness so other people don't have to go through what they went through.

When it comes to law, it doesn't matter how we see it. I will play devils advocate, "Online Defamation, Cyber Libel, Injurious Falsehood or Business Disparagement."

If these people have gone through the legal system, and are disappointed with the results, being a vigelanti or posting something that may be true, but can't be proven, is not something we should be encouraging or providing justification for. This kind of stuff can have serious legal and monetary consequences and some of these posters have named people. At this point, I encourage people to DM each other if they have gone through or experienced something illegal and take it to the appropriate authorities as a group, it's harder to ignore.

ETA: Just clarifying since this thread is dealing with a wide range of issues. Posting a review on someone's experience at a business is definitely okay and encouraged. Illegal behavior of any type, however, must go through the legal system. Cyber laws are changing quickly and being naive to them won't provide a pass. I can think of nothing worse than a victim having to pay their abuser.