All-Star Is Non-Tumbling ruining cheerleading

[catlady]

Sorry, duplicated by error.

 

[UCFKnights07]

theres just too many divisions at this point, 15 international divisions, plus add small, medium, large, u18, non tumble, open, limited, and then xsmall.
some of them probably could be moved to summit, but.... i cant see non tumbling being that one, its literally the biggest division in terms of teams, and at this point its probably worlds biggest money maker.
ultimately i have to wonder if they turn worlds into two separate weekends down the road if it continues to grow. having all the international divisions go one weekend, and the rest of the divisions on anther weekend.

 

[morganontheweekends]

While I do think there are wayyyyyy too many divisions at worlds, I think international NT is fine as a worlds division. However, I think U18 NT should be moved to The Summit, but that won't happen, and we all know why. There was a discussion a while ago comparing tumbling level 6 to figure skating and NT to ice dancing, and I think that was a pretty good comparison. I do wish they would implement a minimum score (but that will never happen either lol) because some of these NT teams have 0 business competing level 6, but that was an issue before NT existed.

I honestly really enjoy NT, probably for one of the same reasons I love level 4.2, I think it's great that athletes who don't have higher level tumbling (whatever the reason) or don't want to/can't tumble level 6 anymore have opportunities to compete level 6 building skills.

 

[Stacabirda]

It seems like some gyms, even strong “powerhouse” ones, are beginning to field as many Non-Tumbling Level 6 teams as “regular” Level 6 teams. I’m wondering how many athletes on these NT teams legitimately cannot tumble/ refuse to participate in that aspect of competitive cheer. Or are athletes who could easily handle being on a “real” Level 6 team being relegated to these NT teams because the gym doesn’t think they have enough tumbling for an actual Level 6 division.

Regardless, there seem to be fewer Level 6 tumblers throughout the US than there used to be. There is less incentive to work up to Level 6 tumbling because you can go to Worlds with no tumbling at all. (Summit/ASW offers a similar chance to go to Florida at the end of the year without being Level 6.)

If your gym only offers a NT team, you might as well stop tumbling once you reach the Worlds level. And how backwards does that sound… when you get to the highest level, stop tumbling all together!

NT does serve a useful purpose, but many gyms just seem to throw random NT teams together that are a mixture of Level 6 athletes, Level 4 athletes, beginners with no tumbling… It’s just random and messes with the natural progressions of cheer.

I might be more accepting of NT if they moved it to Summit. But overall I hate the idea of athletes abandoning tumbling at the “highest level”. And it’s not like there are no places for non-tumblers on regular Level 6 teams. Practically every Level 6 team has at least one athlete that can’t tumble anywhere near Level 6. But at least they’re still working on their tumbling every practice instead of acting like tumbling isn’t part of a cheer routine.

I wonder if there are fewer Level 6 “tumbling” teams than previous years, or if it just feels that way because there are so many divisions these days.

I love your question and have quite a bit to say… My daughter cheers at a large “powerhouse gym” which shockingly just took the NT route with a team she’s waited years to be on as her first Worlds dream team. Once finally ready and highly qualified, they switched the dream team to NT in light of USASF’s age grid changes for senior 6 worlds teams. We were devastated because my daughter IS a true tumbler, and was groomed by the coaches for the past year to walk on the dream team at tryouts. So that was suddenly 100% not attainable (She’s a flumbler and no way she was going to be placed NT). However we knew the gym would make room for all the kids with tumbling and form a new worlds team. Thankfully that happened and she’s not on the dream team but an equally awesome new senior coed 6. Presently, I don’t think as NT it’s anything we want a part of at this point in her 9 years of Allstar. Hopefully they’ll return to a tumbling division one year and we can wear that uni at Worlds one day. We have exactly 4-5 years left of eligibility as she graduates High school in 2027 at 17 yo and turns 18 mid June but college cheer trumps super senior Allstar!!
As for do they have less tumblers… the answer at our gym is yes and no. We have plenty of tumblers that go the traditional route like my daughter, and cheer as usual with a typically choreographed routine. Yet with recent tryouts we’ve been able to move up some very powerful bases to Worlds NT that just maxed out with 4.2 or S3 tumbling and couldn’t take it any higher; some of them 2-3 years as repeaters. That doesn’t mean they’re not phenomenal cheerleaders and they put out just as much on the floor as tumbling teams. I’m super excited to see their routines this year and root them on. Especially for the dream team going U-18 NT & LARGE all girl (xtra large if there is a thing ). It really feels like the sport is growing massively. We got in about 9 years ago as a mini. Everything has changed many times over with rules, popularity, and gyms that once had 1 mini team now have 4 tiny, 4 mini, 4 youth, 4 Junior etc… So is it appropriate to say the sport is growing? I think so! Cheer is just making divisions to be inclusive for all at this level now and all that they see coming up the line. Bodies will change as they mature and some will be unable to keep up with the tumbling and look to a NT tract whereas others will keep growing and develop higher elite tumbling.
There is definitely something to be said for athletes who tumbled at high levels and sustained injuries who now have a home on these amazing NT teams. As well as those power bases that max out with mid level tumbling and would be hiding in the back of a S6 worlds team during certain tumbling sections who can now fully participate on NT. Ever heard the saying, “there’s a seat for every ?” (Car dealer bad joke) So now there’s a team for every cheerleader!
I will end with this last and final thought regarding L6 tumbling teams: just WAIT til you see us hit with every single athlete on the floor throwing team 22Dubs, whip dub specialty bounce back passes, and then some. Opening up the divisions just amped our game ten fold with what we’re gonna throw down now that everyone on the team tumbles!!
I only wonder what the new scoresheets will look like now

 

[Knowcheering]

Perhaps you mean 'is NT ruining traditional level 6?'

Yes, I should have worded it that way. I understand that NT has some benefits and some of the teams are good. But I’m wondering about it’s effect on regular Level 6. Are Moms just not signing up Suzy for tumbling privates anymore because they know Suzy has a substantially easier path to get to Worlds one day even with no tumbling?

Maybe it’s just my imagination, but it feels like there are fewer regular Level 6 teams nowadays, and the amount of tumbling is less than it used to be. And of course the most popular divisions are XS, and we see a ton of downsizing of division sizes. World Cup is a good example— in the past they used to have 2 medium Level 6 teams in addition to Stars (or at least one Small and one Medium team) and this year they’re barely able to field 1 XS team (but have a NT team). Another example is WE Generals going from Medium recently to now Small. F5 is another one that used to be Large with a ton of tumbling, now they’ve downsized. Cali San Marcos seems to have similar issues where Lady Bullets used to be insane tumblers & last season didn’t even exist. Are any gyms’ Level 6 teams actually getting bigger instead of smaller? I’m sure NT isn’t the only thing to blame (the Summit craze is also hurting Level 6), but I’m thinking it plays a part of it.

 

[catlady]

Yes, I should have worded it that way. I understand that NT has some benefits and some of the teams are good. But I’m wondering about it’s effect on regular Level 6. Are Moms just not signing up Suzy for tumbling privates anymore because they know Suzy has a substantially easier path to get to Worlds one day even with no tumbling?

Maybe it’s just my imagination, but it feels like there are fewer regular Level 6 teams nowadays, and the amount of tumbling is less than it used to be. And of course the most popular divisions are XS, and we see a ton of downsizing of division sizes. World Cup is a good example— in the past they used to have 2 medium Level 6 teams in addition to Stars (or at least one Small and one Medium team) and this year they’re barely able to field 1 XS team (but have a NT team). Another example is WE Generals going from Medium recently to now Small. F5 is another one that used to be Large with a ton of tumbling, now they’ve downsized. Cali San Marcos seems to have similar issues where Lady Bullets used to be insane tumblers & last season didn’t even exist. Are any gyms’ Level 6 teams actually getting bigger instead of smaller? I’m sure NT isn’t the only thing to blame (the Summit craze is also hurting Level 6), but I’m thinking it plays a part of it.

Where I think your logic is flawed is if an athlete enjoys tumbling, has the talent, is healthy, and their family can afford it and is willing to spend the money, they aren't going to take a route to avoid it. If a gym has a tumbling level 6 team, that athlete is going to strive to be on that team or go elsewhere.

Your examples are less about NT and more about economy, inflation, and generational spending. Things such as travel expenses increasing 18% in the past few years is not something the cheer industry can control, but it definitely impacts them. Next, Gen X is aging and exiting the industry as parents, Millennials have the most youth sport athletes, however, they are well documented as spending much differently than GenX and Boomers. Cheer is no different from any other business, they have to adapt or go out of business.
From Forbes: Millennial Spending Habits and Why They Buy:

Where do they spend?​

Millennials spend more on comforts and conveniences:

• 60% of millennials spend more than $4 on a single coffee
• 70% of millennials will spend a little extra to eat at the hip restaurants in town
• 69% of millennials buy clothes for reasons beyond basic necessity
• Over 50% of millennials spend money on taxis and Ubers while only 29% of Gen X and 15% of Boomers do the same

Millennials spend more per year on:

• Groceries
• Gas
• Restaurants
• Their cellphone as nearly all own a smartphone and comprise the highest usage as well
• Hobbies, electronics, and clothing

At the same time, millennials spend less than older generations on:

• Television—as streaming services have come online, cable is becoming a service of the past
• Travel, because they’re unable to afford regular vacations and struggle to save for them
• Pharmacies
• Furniture/building materials

 

[UCFKnights07]

Yes, I should have worded it that way. I understand that NT has some benefits and some of the teams are good. But I’m wondering about it’s effect on regular Level 6. Are Moms just not signing up Suzy for tumbling privates anymore because they know Suzy has a substantially easier path to get to Worlds one day even with no tumbling?

Maybe it’s just my imagination, but it feels like there are fewer regular Level 6 teams nowadays, and the amount of tumbling is less than it used to be. And of course the most popular divisions are XS, and we see a ton of downsizing of division sizes. World Cup is a good example— in the past they used to have 2 medium Level 6 teams in addition to Stars (or at least one Small and one Medium team) and this year they’re barely able to field 1 XS team (but have a NT team). Another example is WE Generals going from Medium recently to now Small. F5 is another one that used to be Large with a ton of tumbling, now they’ve downsized. Cali San Marcos seems to have similar issues where Lady Bullets used to be insane tumblers & last season didn’t even exist. Are any gyms’ Level 6 teams actually getting bigger instead of smaller? I’m sure NT isn’t the only thing to blame (the Summit craze is also hurting Level 6), but I’m thinking it plays a part of it.

yeah i think this has more to do with the economy, then the "its easier to just be on NT and an easier path to gold" excuse.

more people are having to work past the age of retirement due to inflation, people are starting to loss their jobs, rent and housing in a multitude of cities is becoming too unaffordable, homelessness is on the rise everywhere, wages arent keeping up with the rise in cost of living, and the list goes on and on.....
the people that are desperate to keep their kids in sports are probably pinching pennies in order to do so, and if NT is the more cost effective way, then i can imagine athletes and parents alike are choosing that route.
nevermind the mass exodus that people are leaving places like california and up north, to live in cheaper states in the south. Cali has been having problems for a few seasons retaining athletes to stay in the same divisions. And with the way things are going, they will probably be the programs that continue to have issues for the forseeable future.

 

[CoachHannah]

To be completely frank, this seems like a very exclusive view of cheerleading. I started comp cheer at 14 on my school's varsity team and, from 19-20, was on an all-star open NT level 6 Worlds team. Respectfully I have fabulous jumps (well over hyperextended) and am a strong backspot, but because I started comp cheer so late in the game, my tumbling only ever went as high as a back handspring. My stunting abilities would have been wasted on a level 2 team. Not everyone is fortunate enough to start cheerleading when they're young (which is the ideal time for learning tumbling) and not everyone has the extra hundreds of dollars a month for private lessons, especially when cheer is already such an expensive sport (I paid for my tumbling privates myself once I started working because no way could my family have afforded it).

I could also get into how NT teams can be lifesavers for athletes who may not be physically able to tumble anymore - whether that be due to an injury or older age, as with adult athletes - but I think the point should be really obvious there that a physical inability to tumble shouldn't have to be career-ending for athletes who are still capable of stunting and jumps.

There are some really amazing NT teams, just as there are bad ones. There are also really amazing tumbling teams, just as there are very bad ones. Having a division without tumbling, where you can be more devoted to working on creative, difficult stunting, doesn't make cheerleading worse and more than it makes it better; it just adds a different skill set to the mix.

 

[mamamarcie]

It seems like some gyms, even strong “powerhouse” ones, are beginning to field as many Non-Tumbling Level 6 teams as “regular” Level 6 teams. I’m wondering how many athletes on these NT teams legitimately cannot tumble/ refuse to participate in that aspect of competitive cheer. Or are athletes who could easily handle being on a “real” Level 6 team being relegated to these NT teams because the gym doesn’t think they have enough tumbling for an actual Level 6 division.

Regardless, there seem to be fewer Level 6 tumblers throughout the US than there used to be. There is less incentive to work up to Level 6 tumbling because you can go to Worlds with no tumbling at all. (Summit/ASW offers a similar chance to go to Florida at the end of the year without being Level 6.)

If your gym only offers a NT team, you might as well stop tumbling once you reach the Worlds level. And how backwards does that sound… when you get to the highest level, stop tumbling all together!

NT does serve a useful purpose, but many gyms just seem to throw random NT teams together that are a mixture of Level 6 athletes, Level 4 athletes, beginners with no tumbling… It’s just random and messes with the natural progressions of cheer.

I might be more accepting of NT if they moved it to Summit. But overall I hate the idea of athletes abandoning tumbling at the “highest level”. And it’s not like there are no places for non-tumblers on regular Level 6 teams. Practically every Level 6 team has at least one athlete that can’t tumble anywhere near Level 6. But at least they’re still working on their tumbling every practice instead of acting like tumbling isn’t part of a cheer routine.

I wonder if there are fewer Level 6 “tumbling” teams than previous years, or if it just feels that way because there are so many divisions these days.

That *is* odd! Isn’t this one of the reasons why STUNT was created?