All-Star Just Read The Link Given For Icc/ice....

[fiercediv]

yeah where is this link?

 

[mollymags]

I have a few confusions about coaches jumping from gym to gym and getting fired. 1. Why would a gym not call past references? 2. If past references were not given, why would you think the coach is qualified to work with your teams?

A lot of companies (in general, I can't speak for the cheer world) don't give references any mother other than yes, he/she did work there those dates and yes, he/she did make that much money at the time. They're worried about being sued for slander if they say anything negative about why he/she left the program. Especially if it's just allegations, the gym might not be comfortable bringing it up if it wasn't actually true (and could then be called slander).

That's exactly the answer to that. I know from close experience of a situation where a 20 year old coach was dating a 14 year old athlete (with her mother's permission) and he was dismissed from the program he was working for. The girl left the program to go to a different gym in the area. He went to work for her new gym and when the new gym called the old gym for a reference, they weren't able to say anything more than yes, he worked there, yes he made this much, and no, they would not give him a good recommendation. If they could have divulged more information, I'm sure they would have.

 

[mollymags]

And, @mollymags why isn't this being made public? If you know of specific situations with specific gyms in the area or know of other individuals that do, don't we have an obligation, both as guardians to minor children and as responsible consumers, to warn one another?

I wish I had an answer for you. I personally don't know all the legalities surrounding this sort of thing. The information you posted about DCFS was news to me. I know that I personally wouldn't want to be the one responsible for making it public because of that, and because now that I'm no longer associated with a gym (but still heavily involved in the industry and in constant communication with gyms from the chicagoland area) most of what I've heard over the past couple of years has been "he said/she said" sort of information. People could give me x, y, and z reasons that what they're telling me is true, that a coach is doing something or has been fired and this is why, etc, but in the end I generally don't know any of the parties involved firsthand and have no real proof. I'm kind of under the impression that there's not much you can do until someone has charges pressed against them, and at that point it's generally far too late.

 

[Sitz_Lamos]

I am not sure you can legally make a blacklist. IANAL, but I don't believe you can make a list of accusations, only POSSIBLY of crimes you are convicted of. Then the sex offender list would take care of the rest (all gym owners should be doing a background check and checking the sex offender list). IF nothing else the USASF could mandate no one on the sex offender list be allowed to be a USASF certified coach... but the law part gets in the way. @cheersafety would probably know more than me.

I do know, as a card carrying member of the ACLU, you have to be careful what lists you make. It is very easy to accuse someone (a pissed off parent or child) so to make said blacklist which would ruin a coaches career if they were not even responsible. The smartest thing to do as a gym owner is do a background check, call former gyms and get candid opinions, and last dont EVER let there be JUST a coach and a minor in the gym at the same time.

Idk the law, but I would think if you were on a national sex offender registry, you would have a parole officer? Which then would lead me to believe that any person on a national sex offender registry (especially whose offense was against children) wouldnt even be able to work with that amount of children, or be within a certain distance of a school. Is that just me? Or do I watch too many Law & Order SVU episodes?

 

[ztaprincess]

Idk the law, but I would think if you were on a national sex offender registry, you would have a parole officer? Which then would lead me to believe that any person on a national sex offender registry (especially whose offense was against children) wouldnt even be able to work with that amount of children, or be within a certain distance of a school. Is that just me? Or do I watch too many Law & Order SVU episodes?

No you are correct. In cases where the crime leading to being on the sex offenders list was against a minor then it almost always has a stipulation where you are not allowed to work around children which is why I don't see how this man could ever work at a gym that has athletes under the age of 18.

I also do not understand how this man had allegations for so long (prior to the article in the link) and parents still allowed their daughters to take privates with him and be alone with him. These times that these athletes were at his home, where were their parents and why were they allowed alone in his home? I just don't understand how this can go on for so long and no one thought anything of it.

I also see that many of this happened before ICE turned into ICC, which confuses me a bit. This story was brought up in 2008, but the gym didn't close until this past season, so what else happened to cause the closing?

 

[King]

Idk the law, but I would think if you were on a national sex offender registry, you would have a parole officer? Which then would lead me to believe that any person on a national sex offender registry (especially whose offense was against children) wouldnt even be able to work with that amount of children, or be within a certain distance of a school. Is that just me? Or do I watch too many Law & Order SVU episodes?

Yes but they only get on that list, I believe, if convicted. I think people on here are talking about a list where we decide if someone deserves to be on it with or without a conviction.

That's a HUGE lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[kristenthegreat]

..Is there some other way we can go about this? Legally? Some sort of background check necessary for coach/judging credentialing? Coach/judging credentialing required for all coaches in order for a gym to compete at competitions? Some other crazy backdoor legal method that helps ensure bad coaches are kept away but good coaches caught in bad drama don't get dragged under..

 

[ztaprincess]

I personally feel that if a coach has a pending case where they are being investigated for an illegal act against a minor they should not be hired anywhere and placed on a list by the USASF. If they are cleared from all wrong doing legally then that person should be removed from the list and allowed back to whatever gym wants to hire them.

 

[King]

I personally feel that if a coach has a pending case where they are being investigated for an illegal act against a minor they should not be hired anywhere and placed on a list by the USASF. If they are cleared from all wrong doing legally then that person should be removed from the list and allowed back to whatever gym wants to hire them.

Then you are saying they are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[kickdblcj]

:starwars:

 

[nhgurlnh]

In my town, there was a huge case like this regarding a parent that had been charged with sexual harrassment and statutory rape of his niece. The trial took 2 years to finally get to court after his niece sued, and during that time, the parent continued to coach youth lacrosse and baseball. All of the people in charge of the organization knew of the case, but none of the parents of the children he coached knew. This man also was on the school board, and has 5 children and coached all 5 of their lacrosse teams. At the time, he was coaching over 150 kids. When the case finally went to trial, he was convicted and sentenced to 5 years. He still maintains his innocence.

(Just to provide more info, the judge was severely biased, he did not testify, and his niece who claimed that he harassed her had serious mental issues from a horrible childhood, she was adopted by the mans sister at age 13, both of her biological uncle's harassed her and she has been in and out of a mental facility, has PTSD)

Anyway, this man has now appealed, been released because his appeal is going through, and will probably win his appeal with evidence that was eliminated by the biased judge from the first trial.

But, this begs the question.... Should this man have been coaching when he had been charged, but hadn't gone to trial? Should the parents of the children he coached had known about the situation? Yes. he is innocent until proven guilty, but a jury felt that he should be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, so there must be something that made them think that he did this.

 

[Sp1derP1g1230]

That is such a tough question. Parents should be aware, but the coach has rights too. There could be such a mob mentality created. As a parent I would never let my child alone with a coach in a situation like that. Someone posted that privates were closed, but I think if they were the only one in the gym that the coach would want another person in the gym to protect themself. I have a feeling that a lot of credible coaches make a point of never being alone with a child so they don't find themselves in a situation like we are talking about.

It's just sad that in our society that this happens when the coach is guilty and innocent of accusations made against them.

 

[east2westandbackagain]

Yes but they only get on that list, I believe, if convicted. I think people on here are talking about a list where we decide if someone deserves to be on it with or without a conviction.

That's a HUGE lawsuit waiting to happen.

NO I am referring to using the sex offender list from each state as a guide, no one that is not convicted would be on it. It saddens me to even have to want to make this happen.

 

[Sp1derP1g1230]

That is such a tough question. Parents should be aware, but the coach has rights too. There could be such a mob mentality created. As a parent I would never let my child alone with a coach in a situation like that. Someone posted that privates were closed, but I think if they were the only one in the gym that the coach would want another person in the gym to protect themself. I have a feeling that a lot of credible coaches make a point of never being alone with a child so they don't find themselves in a situation like we are talking about.

It's just sad that in our society that this happens when the coach is guilty and innocent of accusations made against them.

I meant guilty or innocent

 

[Deleted member 1556]

Neither of those links worked for me. Anyone else have the same problem?