All-Star Let's Discuss Worlds Scoring

[Emily]

I'm all for a universal scoring system but if it was the Worlds non-rubric one then all year you would be just shooting in the dark. Which scoring system would be used?

I guess the majority would prefer a rubric scoresheet because it is much easier to work with. It would also make sense to use it at worlds because coaches work with it all year long.

 

[AllstarErin]

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but, its really time we had set difficulty a la gymnastics, diving, figure skating. Scoresheets that are norm-referenced (like the one used at worlds) takes away transparency and legitimacy from our sport at the end of the day. I know the biggest argument against this is it takes away creativity and forces teams into cookie cutter routines, however, I don't think that is the case.

It is really important for both those inside and outside the sport to see that teams are winning based on a set of criteria and not an opinion (not to take away from anyones achievements in the past). The way I see it, the difficulty score and execution should be scored based on a scoring continuum made available to all (as is the trend outside of worlds) and this should be universal to the sport. This way teams can focus on skills, choreography and execution instead of figuring out ways to 'trick' the judges into thinking they can do more then they can or having to change routines throughout the year to suit different scoring systems. The goal of worlds is to grow our sport and gain legitimacy. This can't happen without a scoring system which is as far removed from subjectivity as possible.

 

[yojaehs]

Now can we get Varsity, Jam and IEP to all agree on one!? I'm still in favor of BlueCat system that allows for an "EP" column on a universal score sheet. Ill let him explain more in depth but I'm a huge fan!


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[SparkleSpankies]

I think all competitions where worlds bids are given out, whether it is "your" score sheet or not, need to use the worlds score sheet for any worlds divisions - whatever that may be. That way all worlds teams are judged on the same platform.

 

[BlueCat]

There has to be some middle ground between cookie-cutter routines and a free-for-all, judges just pick what they "like" system.

No lie - one of the comments from finals in a high-profile division at Worlds:

"Didn't seem really 'firey' to me" - (no other explanation given)

That is incredibly helpful Mr. Judge. Thank you for the expert insight and helping shape the direction we take our routines next season. Watch for us to borrow some outfits from the Hunger Games to wear in 2014.

To make it clear: I am not complaining about the results or the rankings. The process and the absolute lack of meaningful feedback is incredibly frustrating.

 

[King]

Can someone put in the rest of the IOC 5 scores so I can do some more regression analysis? I want to see some things.

 

[King]

There has to be some middle ground between cookie-cutter routines and a free-for-all, judges just pick what they "like" system.

No lie - one of the comments from finals in a high-profile division at Worlds:

"Didn't seem really 'firey' to me"

That is incredibly helpful Mr. Judge. Thank you for the expert insight and helping shape the direction we take our routines next season. Watch for us to borrow some outfits from the Hunger Games to wear in 2014.

You are probably not winning Worlds if...

You aren't on fire.

 

[cupieqt]

There has to be some middle ground between cookie-cutter routines and a free-for-all, judges just pick what they "like" system.

No lie - one of the comments from finals in a high-profile division at Worlds:

"Didn't seem really 'firey' to me"

That is incredibly helpful Mr. Judge. Thank you for the expert insight and helping shape the direction we take our routines next season. Watch for us to borrow some outfits from the Hunger Games to wear in 2014.

Very informative comment.

I can't wait to see the flaming cats next year.


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[AllstarErin]

There has to be some middle ground between cookie-cutter routines and a free-for-all, judges just pick what they "like" system.

No lie - one of the comments from finals in a high-profile division at Worlds:

"Didn't seem really 'firey' to me" - (no other explanation given)

That is incredibly helpful Mr. Judge. Thank you for the expert insight and helping shape the direction we take our routines next season. Watch for us to borrow some outfits from the Hunger Games to wear in 2014.

Can't tell you how many times this has happened to me but the fact that this is happening at worlds in 2013 is next level.

 

[King]

The reason it is so hard and clouded is the same people have to score the same thing at the same time.

Difficulty is what allows gyms to exist. Creativity is what makes this all fun. Separate out the two!

 

[L5cheermom]

I agree that the current Varsity system is the least horrible one out there.

But I'm OK with higher deduction values. These should be the elite and we should have the expectation of flawless routines.


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[tricial4]

So the scoring this weekend is a large departure from what is used all season. The good news is there is a large top end to allow more clear separation for teams. The bad news is the scoring is completely comparative based. What does that mean? When scoring a judge has to predict if what they are looking at is at the top level or not. If it is at the top the judge will put the score closer to the limit, but if they believe that the team they are looking at is not near the top they will leave room for higher scoring later.

There are a couple issues with this.

1. Team name does play into bias of what is considered difficult and what not. If a judge knows a harder team is coming later even if the team in front of them is fantastic they will leave room for what is coming later in CASE it is better. PS - if your ball gets pulled #1 during the lottery it is almost not even worth going to Worlds because of this.

2. Judges are human and susceptible to the recency effect ( Serial position effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Whatever they see happening before or after a team affects that preceding teams score. See a bunch of low scoring routines in a row and then just a decent team will have an elevated score. This is reason we see rubrics and divisions split at other competitions. The smaller amount of teams a judge has to be concerned with the lower this effect.

3. Nothing can be learned from what won at Worlds this year to plan for next year. Because all scoring is strictly situational no coach can look at what was done to win and say next year I see our weak points and we will improve on them to have a better chance.

4. Difficulty and Execution scores are defined that day arbitrarily in a judges head depending on how well the judge interprets the intentions of the writer of the scoresheet.

Is it like this at all competitions or just worlds? Does this happen us level 2 or 3?


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[King]

Is it like this at all competitions or just worlds? Does this happen us level 2 or 3?


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For this discussion just Worlds.

 

[King]

 

[f5forever]

So could worlds not put out their own rubric? EP's/companies could decided to follow the rubric or not, but at least choreographers and coaches would know where they stand going into worlds and have a goal to work towards.