All-Star More World Divisions

[Knowcheering]

Or, it's about the venue and meeting their criteria. The Summit has a plethora of teams/divisions to give bids to (Disney translation: amount of multi-day park hoppers they want for the venue) but, World's is a different story. No doubt when the Disney-Varsity partnership was formed and the new building was built, Varsity had to meet economic criteria (park hoppers) for each of Summit, Dance World's, Cheer World's, and D2 weekends . From a fan perspective, I'm right there with everyone that would prefer seeing a handful of divisions battle it out. From solely a business perspective, I can see how Cheer World's would have the smallest population and the hardest time meeting economic criteria. More divisions=more park hoppers. When I was a buyer we used to say, "Welcome to Groveling and Sorcery 101, where you rely on everyone else's businesses to get your job done, but you still have to meet dates/deadlines, cost and profit margin." I imagine EP's and buyers have a lot in common.

Move Worlds out of Disney World already if it’s not a big enough event to please Disney. Lol if only. Plenty of venues would gladly host a competition that attracts teams from all parts of the globe. Disney is lucky a sport’s World Championships even wants to compete there.

But these new divisions aren’t even going to add many teams to Worlds as much as they will just further dilute the already existing playing field. The number of Level 6 teams isn’t growing— it’s shrinking/stagnating (and weakening with more teams doing NT or struggling to field a 12-person XS team), in part because of the heavy emphasis on Summit. Plenty of athletes don’t bother getting to Level 6 anymore because they can get a trip to Florida/Disney at the end of the season whether they’re on Level 6 or Level 3. We give Level 1 teams rings just like we give rings to the World Champions, and have kids believing they’re on top of the world for winning Level 4. It’s no coincidence that Level 6 participation has stagnated/decreased at the same time as the Summit has become popular (before Summit existed, we had “All-Levels Championships” events, which were more low-key). But I digress.

The point is, they keep adding more Level 6 divisions, but there’s no big increase in Level 6 teams to go along with it. It’s already very difficult to find competition in Level 6. The last thing we need are more divisions.

The claim that we need “Limited” divisions because XS has been overrun by the huge gyms is false and a pretty weak excuse to add more divisions. The gyms that have been doing well in XS are regular, normal-sized gyms. A “Mega” gym location may enter this division if they have “leftovers” that don’t fit on another team (I’m exaggerating a bit, but you get what I mean). But no Mega gym’s main team is XS. And the XS divisions would be extremely weak (aka not Worlds-worthy) if you removed every gym that has more than 1 Worlds team. Breaking down a division this way doesn’t even make sense because a team isn’t inherently at an advantage just because there’s another Level 6 team in their program.

If a small gym of 100 athletes wants to claim it’s at a huge disadvantage in Level 6, fine, but these new divisions AREN’T Small Gym divisions, they are divisions for any size gym to hide from the competition in their actual division. And I agree that the name “Limited” is terrible because that’s what Coed divisions used to be called, and it doesn’t emphasize the fact that these are lesser B versions of already existing divisions.

Making everyone a winner in cheer will only work until a certain point, then it will start to chase serious athletes away into other sports. You can make everyone a “National Champion”, but if you start to cheapen a World title too, kids are going to stop caring so much about winning it and will just do a more serious sport instead. It’s already been happening.

 

[UCFKnights07]

And the XS divisions would be extremely weak (aka not Worlds-worthy) if you removed every gym that has more than 1 Worlds team.

i thought the extra small division showed quite well when it was only designated for smaller gyms. i dont think a division should be considered not worlds worthy just cause the mega gyms arent in the mix.

 

[catlady]

Move Worlds out of Disney World already if it’s not a big enough event for them. Lol if only. Plenty of venues would gladly host a competition that attracts teams from all parts of the globe. Disney is lucky a sport’s World Championships even wants to compete there.

Once upon a time I thought there were "plenty" of venues so, I looked for myself. For the large National's, Kay Bailey and GWCC are already in the top ten, as far as, square footage. Then, there's sq footage that has ceilings high enough for cheer and sq footage in ballrooms with low ceilings that won't work. Disney is Internationally and kid friendly, and it's a place that appeals to both foreign and domestic travelers, as well as, it has more security versus other venues. Florida has airports with a lot of direct flights, plenty of reasonably priced hotels/housing, parking, food, and surrounding entertainment. The majority of All Star customers are in the East/Southeast, so many can drive. Then the unseen details of contracts, locking in multi years and quantity of customers to keep cost down. "Move World's out of Disney World already...." isn't as easy as I thought it would be.


Convention Centers in order of largest square footage:
1. MCCORMICK PLACE // Chicago, Illinois
2. LAS VEGAS CONVENTION CENTER // Las Vegas, Nevada
3. WASHINGTON CONVENTION CENTER // Washington, D.C.
4. ORANGE COUNTY CONVENTION CENTER // Orlando, Florida
5. GEORGIA WORLD CONGRESS CENTER // Atlanta, Georgia
1.5 million sq ft exhibitor space (does not include stadium)
6. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON CONVENTION CENTER // Dallas, Texas
2.0 million sq ft includes arena and exhibitor space
7. THE MOSCONE CENTER // San Francisco, California
8. NASHVILLE CONVENTION CENTER // Nashville, Tennessee
9. SAN DIEGO CONVENTION CENTER // San Diego, California
10. ERNEST N. MORIAL CONVENTION CENTER // New Orleans, Louisiana
11. COLORADO CONVENTION CENTER // Denver, Colorado
12. HENRY B. GONZALEZ CONVENTION CENTER // San Antonio, Texas
13. PHOENIX CONVENTION CENTER // Phoenix, Arizona
14. LOS ANGELES CONVENTION CENTER // Los Angeles, California
720,000 square feet.
15. JOHN B. HYNES CONVENTION CENTER // Boston, Massachusetts
360,000 square feet

 

[WinstonsGirl]

Once upon a time I thought there were "plenty" of venues so, I looked for myself. For the large National's, Kay Bailey and GWCC are already in the top ten, as far as, square footage. Then, there's sq footage that has ceilings high enough for cheer and sq footage in ballrooms with low ceilings that won't work. Disney is Internationally and kid friendly, and it's a place that appeals to both foreign and domestic travelers, as well as, it has more security versus other venues. Florida has airports with a lot of direct flights, plenty of reasonably priced hotels/housing, parking, food, and surrounding entertainment. The majority of All Star customers are in the East/Southeast, so many can drive. Then the unseen details of contracts, locking in multi years and quantity of customers to keep cost down. "Move World's out of Disney World already...." isn't as easy as I thought it would be.

I deleted the list just to make room. The major appeal of Disney is that it covers everything needed for the event. All in one, you have competition venues, transportation to and from, hotel accommodation, food, entertainment and easy access nationally and internationally. Many of the listed venues can't do all of that. I know our gym is often 60-90mins away from the NCA venue because there is nothing available closer. When we travel to other competitions, we also have to book our bussing, hotels, etc. separately, and find decent yet inexpensive places for the athletes to eat. Disney has it all on site. Add in that 90% (a guess) of the competitors at Worlds are American teenagers, Disney gives you a somewhat enclosed (though large) environment that caters to all of their needs.


Personally, I'm so tired of flying to Florida for Worlds every year, and it's not too far from Canada. I can't imagine teams from Europe, Asia or Oceania flying and trying to pay for that every year. But can you imagine close to 10 000 US athletes and their families making the trip to Sydney, or Bangkok, or wherever each year. Wouldn't happen, and we all know Varsity is more concerned with their bottom line than with improvements for the sport and athletes

 

[catlady]

Personally, I'm so tired of flying to Florida for Worlds every year, and it's not too far from Canada. I can't imagine teams from Europe, Asia or Oceania flying and trying to pay for that every year. But can you imagine close to 10 000 US athletes and their families making the trip to Sydney, or Bangkok, or wherever each year. Wouldn't happen, and we all know Varsity is more concerned with their bottom line than with improvements for the sport and athletes

We agree on the traveling. I had a love-hate relationship with NCA, it was my favorite event from a competition standpoint, but it was our most expensive trip.

As far as, "Varsity is more concerned with their bottom line than with improvements for the sport and athletes." A sad reality in the US is, 88% of US trafficking victims were in the care of Social Services or Foster Care when they ran. Sports Tourism (Major, Minor and Youth) equates to $800 billion and THE #1 sex trafficking event is the Super Bowl and politicians and law enforcement have known it for years. Las Vegas has the highest yearly trafficking numbers and they've known it for years. The AMA has thousands of doctors charged with sex crimes that are still practicing, and they've known it for years. Meanwhile, sex and drug predators still get some of the lowest sentences, if sentenced at all. I'm not anti-politician and lawyers, but law is reality. When you have no legal authority, businesses in 50 states, and each of those 50 states have different business rights, hiring and sexual predator laws, you consult a lawyer. Hence the reason, I keep telling parents to PLEASE stop believing their child is their first priority. These Corps have us. We are the hundreds of businesses owners, tens of thousands of investors, thousands of employees and tens of thousands of consumers they are protecting first. That will always be the priority until they change these laws to protect kids, and the US government doesn't even make it a priority to change the laws and protect the 88% trafficked under their care.

 

[AndyT_T]

I have read on here and in other places about kids being on NT 6 with varying levels of experience (because tumbling is not part of it) but I’m guessing it depends on the gym.

I’ve seen some trajectories that look like:

New to cheer: J1
Second season: S3
Third: NT6

Heck, I remember reading on here at one point that a gym started out Senior kiddos with no cheer experience on 4.2 because that was all they had.

If you pick up basing fast enough, you probably could reasonably move from 4.2 to NT6. Not too sure about flyers though.

Now I can’t say how good that team is going to be if it is composed of relatively new cheerleaders (e.g. Not sure if it could compete with the teams who placed in the top three of the NTs) but it probably does happen like that in some places.

This is such a weird point of contention to have with the NT division to me. I cheered all the time with boys who had never cheered before but who picked up tumbling so fast they started on a worlds team and never competed in another division. Honestly when I was on open teams and on a college team I'd say most of the guys had only ever cheered on worlds teams. If you look around at any given competition you'll notice that there are easily 2-3x as many boys competing on worlds teams as there are on lower levels.

Of course some athletes will come into cheer with no experience and be able to pick up the skills and advance through the levels quickly. Some athletes won't. Regardless of wether or not they cheered for 10 years or 2 before making a worlds team, any worlds team, they're presumably able to perform at level if they were able to make the team and that's all that matters.

 

[cheermomforever]

This is such a weird point of contention to have with the NT division to me. I cheered all the time with boys who had never cheered before but who picked up tumbling so fast they started on a worlds team and never competed in another division. Honestly when I was on open teams and on a college team I'd say most of the guys had only ever cheered on worlds teams. If you look around at any given competition you'll notice that there are easily 2-3x as many boys competing on worlds teams as there are on lower levels.

Of course some athletes will come into cheer with no experience and be able to pick up the skills and advance through the levels quickly. Some athletes won't. Regardless of wether or not they cheered for 10 years or 2 before making a worlds team, any worlds team, they're presumably able to perform at level if they were able to make the team and that's all that matters.

It is crazy how guys come in and just throw stuff having never done it before!

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

It is crazy how guys come in and just throw stuff having never done it before!

It’s crazy!

Girl progress be like:

*Comes into HS JV in 9th with a standing BHS and running 2 BHS that she worked all year in 8th grade to get.
*Takes 2 whole seasons on JV to advance to standing series and standing tuck and get it consistent enough for Varsity.

Boy be like:

*Makes HS JV in 9th with no tumbling.
*Has never even done a cartwheel.
*BHS series after single day of HS open gym.
*Standing tuck by end of summer practices.
*Working a layout & confidently running 2 to tuck by first game.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I saw one college guy go from zero tumbling to standing full and specialty to full in less than 9 months. Crazy to me!

 

[luv2cheer92]

I think I've said it before, but guys usually have two things going for them. Body structure and no fear.

 

[AndyT_T]

I saw one college guy go from zero tumbling to standing full and specialty to full in less than 9 months. Crazy to me!

We had a boy try out for our large coed team in college with no cheer experience. Did a standing tuck on the first day after being spotted a couple of times. Did a standing full that evening in the grass outside the dorms after being talked through it by one of the guys on our team and spending a few hours eating it.

He didn’t get a roundoff in the 4 years I was there lmao

 

[kayemm]

Personally, I'm so tired of flying to Florida for Worlds every year, and it's not too far from Canada. I can't imagine teams from Europe, Asia or Oceania flying and trying to pay for that every year. But can you imagine close to 10 000 US athletes and their families making the trip to Sydney, or Bangkok, or wherever each year. Wouldn't happen, and we all know Varsity is more concerned with their bottom line than with improvements for the sport and athletes

Honestly I think the fact it's in Florida is a major attraction for teams from Europe, the UK especially. It's one of our top holiday destinations and most teams make it a 2/3 week thing, both so they have time to adjust to the time zone and train in the heat, but also so they get to be tourists and go to Disney and Universal etc etc.

Florida is also really handy for international teams because a lot choose to book multiple villas for their stay rather than stay in the Disney resorts - because it's cheaper and also because it means they have common areas they can use for team bonding etc. I just don't think a lot of other places are so easily set up to accommodate large groups like that.

 

[SteelCheerCE]

I don’t understand why so many people are upset about this. The common complaint I see is that it’s a money grab. That there are too many divisions already and that is a small gym can’t handle the competition they should go back to a D2 division somewhere else. The real problem is that it is a money grab, but not as some see it. Our team is a very small gym. Year after year we are lucky to have enough girls to even compete XS. We come from a small town. We have very good talent but it’s a numbers game to keep up with enough stunt groups and athletes to even be competitive. With that said, in the 3 years we have had a worlds team we have had paid bids to worlds and have made it to semis. We have consistently beat D1 programs at large competitions. Here’s where the problem is, year one (the 2nd year of XS when big gyms were allowed to compete) we were the highest scoring D2 gym. We didn’t make it to finals. If it had been like the previous year, we would have won. It’s seems like once a no name gym competes against a big name gym the chances of coming out on top are few. Not because we went good enough but because we lack a name and with a name comes more money. To bring back up the money problem; worlds likes to make the big gyms happy because the big gyms spend more money. They have more athletes and more teams and offer more bang for their buck. A small gym with only 13 athletes does nothing for them. If varsity is as truly money hungry as everyone claims, you don’t think it’s possible they also tilt the table towards the D1 gyms to win? We not asking to have a new division or even a different Worlds as some have suggested. We are asking to be considered and compared fairly. To me these new divisions are proof that Varsity recognizes their bias and instead of fixing the real problem, they try and cover it up with a new division therein creating a bigger divide.

 

[Keep_Believing]

I don’t understand why so many people are upset about this. The common complaint I see is that it’s a money grab. That there are too many divisions already and that is a small gym can’t handle the competition they should go back to a D2 division somewhere else. The real problem is that it is a money grab, but not as some see it. Our team is a very small gym. Year after year we are lucky to have enough girls to even compete XS. We come from a small town. We have very good talent but it’s a numbers game to keep up with enough stunt groups and athletes to even be competitive. With that said, in the 3 years we have had a worlds team we have had paid bids to worlds and have made it to semis. We have consistently beat D1 programs at large competitions. Here’s where the problem is, year one (the 2nd year of XS when big gyms were allowed to compete) we were the highest scoring D2 gym. We didn’t make it to finals. If it had been like the previous year, we would have won. It’s seems like once a no name gym competes against a big name gym the chances of coming out on top are few. Not because we went good enough but because we lack a name and with a name comes more money. To bring back up the money problem; worlds likes to make the big gyms happy because the big gyms spend more money. They have more athletes and more teams and offer more bang for their buck. A small gym with only 13 athletes does nothing for them. If varsity is as truly money hungry as everyone claims, you don’t think it’s possible they also tilt the table towards the D1 gyms to win? We not asking to have a new division or even a different Worlds as some have suggested. We are asking to be considered and compared fairly. To me these new divisions are proof that Varsity recognizes their bias and instead of fixing the real problem, they try and cover it up with a new division therein creating a bigger divide.

Cheer Worlds use to be like the Olympics of Cheer. People want to keep just one competition special, where only the best of the best win Gold.

 

[SteelCheerCE]

Cheer Worlds use to be like the Olympics of Cheer. People want to keep just one competition special, where only the best of the best win Gold.

And I completely agree… but how do you know only the best doesn’t mean a XS team from a small gym? It’s hard to see the bias when your not the one who’s being treated different. When a team can preform the elite level skills plus 2-3 more on each category for stunting and tumbling, and hit them. They should come close to scoring as good as some of the better name teams (especially when those teams have falls in stunts or missed tumbling skills). But I’ve see teams do just that and still score lower then the other teams. I’m sorry, but they hid being the comparative scoring and it’s a joke anymore. If everyone could be judge fairly and consistently without judgement, then I would agree with what you are saying. Until then, I say bring on the new divisions.