All-Star My Issue With Comparative Scoring

[King]

10 years ago you could go to one competition and something, like a back tuck basket, would be legal and at another competition it wouldn't be.


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[Official OWECheer]

10 years ago you could go to one competition and something, like a back tuck basket, would be legal and at another competition it wouldn't be.


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But why is a universal scoresheet crazy?

 

[King]

But why is a universal scoresheet crazy?

Because of how long it has taken to happen. A bad universal scoresheet is better then different scoresheets everywhere. You only have to fix and improve one place.


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[cheernerd5678]

But why is a universal scoresheet crazy?

It's not, it's crazy that we're just getting it now.


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[Official OWECheer]

Because of how long it has taken to happen. A bad universal scoresheet is better then different scoresheets everywhere. You only have to fix and improve one place.


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So basically Jody meant that this was ten years overdue. That makes sense.

 

[King]

So basically Jody meant that this was ten years overdue. That makes sense.

We should've been spending the past 10 years developing the one universal scoresheet, not a bunch of different ones.


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[Helen uk uni cheer]

what I find crazy is not just the scoring but where im from stunt groups are popular categories one comp has one time limit and one has another it makes it a nightmare when you have a week between comps to sort out timing

 

[SuzieQ]

The score sheet needs to make the difficulty risk worth the reward of hitting. Otherwise, no one will risk pushing the limits. There is something to be said for a good, super clean routine, but a clean routine with extra difficulty has to be rewarded.

Difficulty needs to be compounded.

The word I couldn't come up with yesterday is "exponentially" -- that the score sheet needs to allow for scores to rise "exponentially" for difficulty. That is the payoff for trying the really difficult stunts/tumbling/pyramids/baskets and hitting.

 

[King]

The word I couldn't come up with yesterday is "exponentially" -- that the score sheet needs to allow for scores to rise "exponentially" for difficulty. That is the payoff for trying the really difficult stunts/tumbling/pyramids/baskets and hitting.

Yes. Hitting a fullup and a double down in a sequence is exponentially more difficult than just a fullup or just a double down. I used it in the ASGA when I wrote the same piece. Bracket levels of difficulty should each be exponentially reward points.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Yes. Hitting a fullup and a double down in a sequence is exponentially more difficult than just a fullup or just a double down. I used it in the ASGA when I wrote the same piece. Bracket levels of difficulty should each be exponentially reward points.

So how do we score technique to balance that out? Exponentially rewarding exponentially increasing difficulty will more than incentivize teams to put out their hardest skill combos.

 

[King]

So how do we score technique to balance that out? Exponentially rewarding exponentially increasing difficulty will more than incentivize teams to put out their hardest skill combos.

These heavy handed deductions for falling already do that.

But that's just stunts. You shouldn't score jumps and baskets the same was as stunts. All tumbling is different. And pyramids different.


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[Momager]

To go back to your comparison to gymnastics scoring, there are two systems there. In junior olympics, the score is still based on a 10 point system, each level has requirements/ skills that have a specific start value, then points for technique are deducted from there. It is all spelled out in the cumbersome Code of Points. In Elite/international/olympic levels, there are two scores. The difficulty score assigns a number of points to the difficulty of the skill performed, and the execution score is technique and artistry. The problem they are having is that gymnasts are throwing harder skills that they are not fully competent in executing in order to get higher scores. It is leading to injuries, and the general public still seems puzzled by scores like 14.4 and 15.2 with no upper limit. Half the industry calls for a return to the perfect 10, half calls for an overhaul to the difficulty scoring system. And still you know that you want to perform near the end of the competition for the best score.

What's my point? Judging, by nature, will always be subjective to a point. Even with the whole Code of Points, there is variation in scoring.
Gymnastics, figure skating, cheerleading, dance- you know it when you see it, but try breaking it down and, well....

 

[catlady]

Do judges tend to judge by region? The only reason I'm asking, is our teams were scoring consistently within a point or two at every competition until we entered another region and there was a pretty drastic difference (all Varsity scoring). My point? When I was a buyer for a major corp. we bought by region (South, Midwest, North, East and West), our overall numbers, percentage wise, would be very comparable across the board when we were buying separately. However, with imports, we were forced to buy corporate wide and our numbers would vary dramatically by style #, solely based on fashion differences by region. We all kind of chuckled at the Nutella and Toast comparison, but there is a lot of truth behind someone appreciating the full up, double down sequence with good technique as "Nutella" and another yawning and feeling as though they are just hitting skills and "meh, taste like toast".

It's just been my general observation that everyone seems content with their scoring until they jump a few state lines and I believe the Nutella/Toast issue has more to do with it, than we care to admit.

 

[ShoWStoppeR]

If they ever made a tv show "A day in the life of King's brain", they would make millions. Maybe we should just sell you to USASF instead and let them pick it apart.

 

[Official OWECheer]

To go back to your comparison to gymnastics scoring, there are two systems there. In junior olympics, the score is still based on a 10 point system, each level has requirements/ skills that have a specific start value, then points for technique are deducted from there. It is all spelled out in the cumbersome Code of Points. In Elite/international/olympic levels, there are two scores. The difficulty score assigns a number of points to the difficulty of the skill performed, and the execution score is technique and artistry. The problem they are having is that gymnasts are throwing harder skills that they are not fully competent in executing in order to get higher scores. It is leading to injuries, and the general public still seems puzzled by scores like 14.4 and 15.2 with no upper limit. Half the industry calls for a return to the perfect 10, half calls for an overhaul to the difficulty scoring system. And still you know that you want to perform near the end of the competition for the best score.

What's my point? Judging, by nature, will always be subjective to a point. Even with the whole Code of Points, there is variation in scoring.
Gymnastics, figure skating, cheerleading, dance- you know it when you see it, but try breaking it down and, well....

Funny thing is, NCA used to score out of 10. Plus I am shocked to hear that some gymnasts (and their coaches) are will to sacrifice some of their technique for difficulty. I have always seen gymnastics as being a culture of technical perfection.