All-Star New Changes - Divisions For Worlds

[Keep_Believing]

So wouldn't that be an IOC small and large? And if they are doing a non-International Open 5...what is the difference between the 2?

There is now International or Open 5. From what I gather both will be 14 and up. Open 5 will be like Senior 5 , top 10 move on to Worlds, follow Senior 5 scoresheet so tumbling will count more than it does for International.

International 5 will be like IO 5 has been, each country can send top 3 to finals, tumbling counts less at Worlds. There are rumors which may be false , that International will put the rules into place that they attempted to put into place last season. I did not save those rules.

 

[callmecoach]

exaaaaccctly! That's how I see it. The mega gym is not going to dismantle their successful teams to make new little ones. I don't see the appeal in that and doubt it would happen. But take Fame for instance, they have 9 locations, but our beach gym doesn't have a world's team at all. All of the kids who tried out for world's teams have to travel 2 hours to Richmond for practice (supers/vengeance/notorious). The beach gym is PACKED with talent but not everyone can travel 2 hours a day for practices in Richmond AND have space enough for all of the level 5 skills between the 2/3 locations. Why shouldn't they be allowed to field an XS team at beach? That's just an example. I have NO clue what they're teams will look like this year so this is all just ideas.

A mega gym isn't going to dismantle their larger teams, but I think what it comes down to is that a mega gym like CEA, CA (both of them), Stringrays, etc likely have more level 5 reserves across their larger teams that they can now turn into an XS team than some gyms have actual level 5 athletes total. They also have way more R5 and level 4 athletes that they can pull in case of injury or other issues, so they won't have to really worry about spreading too thin (i.e. not having enough reserves for larger teams).

To me, it defeats the purpose of the division. I was a huge skeptic of XS when it was announced but it won me over when I saw it creating visibility and opportunity for smaller gyms and their athletes.

The way I see this going: gyms in the small divisions with other Worlds teams who can't compete with the SMOED's and SSX's of the World and place in top 15-20 every year but can never break through to top 5 will just go XS. In addition, mega gyms no longer have to deal with the problem of telling athletes and their parents that they're a reserve—they'll just go on an additional XS team. Now, the problem we used to see in the small divisions (a million teams with only a handful that have an actual chance) creeps into XS.

ETA: I do agree that it would probably be okay to have franchise locations have XS teams but do think there needs to be set parameters around distance to original location, crossovers, etc.

 

[luv2cheer92]

So wouldn't that be an IOC small and large? And if they are doing a non-International Open 5...what is the difference between the 2?

The international divisions will continue to follow under the IASF as they have been. The open divisions will be the same structurally, but will follow the USASF (like perhaps allowing just top 10 to move on to finals opposed to top 3 from each country). There are rumors that the IASF will implement the changes that they tried to last season in regards to baskets/tumbling/etc, which would then give open teams a place to go to not be bound by those rules. I think people confuse that "international" is not an age description, but a description that it will fall under IASF, "open" is the age.

Also remember that it was announced that D2 Summit would have "Worlds" divisions. I don't think this has been clarified yet, but I would imagine that smaller gyms that want to continue to compete solely against small gyms would go that route. I assumed that this new announcement would be happening once that was stated.

 

[CC1107]

A mega gym isn't going to dismantle their larger teams, but I think what it comes down to is that a mega gym like CEA, CA (both of them), Stringrays, etc likely have more level 5 reserves across their larger teams that they can now turn into an XS team than some gyms have actual level 5 athletes total. They also have way more R5 and level 4 athletes that they can pull in case of injury or other issues, so they won't have to really worry about spreading too thin (i.e. not having enough reserves for larger teams).

To me, it defeats the purpose of the division. I was a huge skeptic of XS when it was announced but it won me over when I saw it creating visibility and opportunity for smaller gyms and their athletes.

The way I see this going: gyms in the small divisions with other Worlds teams who can't compete with the SMOED's and SSX's of the World and place in top 15-20 every year but can never break through to top 5 will just go XS. In addition, mega gyms no longer have to deal with the problem of telling athletes and their parents that they're a reserve—they'll just go on an addition XS team. Now, the problem we used to see in the small divisions (a million teams with only a handful that have an actual chance) creep into XS.

ETA: I do agree that it would probably be okay to have franchise locations have XS teams but do think there needs to be parameters around distance to original location, crossovers, etc.

I have been arguing this ALL afternoon on the internet, with people telling me it is sour grapes as my daughter literally JUST MADE an XSmall worlds team.

The team she made placed 6th in Medium the year before. They are an incredibly talented group. My daughter and her other 14 teammates will straighten their skirt and compete with whomever shows up.

BUT - why have another division and sell it for the little guy and have it last ONE YEAR. They used the underdog, little guy concept to float another division, let it sell itself at worlds (seriously, who didn't love watching those kids globe) and now blow that concept out of the water.

So disappointing....bait and switch.

 

[Nothanks]

Also remember that it was announced that D2 Summit would have "Worlds" divisions. I don't think this has been clarified yet, but I would imagine that smaller gyms that want to continue to compete solely against small gyms would go that route. I assumed that this new announcement would be happening once that was stated.

I was thinking about this over the weekend as I was half-paying attention to D2 Summit. I feel like there is a place for D2 Worlds, and it isn't including it as a part of D2 Summit. Because, let's face it, it's a "National", not "World" competition, no matter how many international teams show up and how you want to spin it, and you wouldn't technically have a "World Champion" title unless Varsity reverses the decision to not allow "other" Worlds. But we already take over ESPN for three weekends in a row, are we really going to be able to tack another weekend in there and elongate the season any more? Until D2 Worlds is a thing, I just don't think it's really going to have the draw they want it to for those worlds teams.

Side question--were there any international teams at D2 Summit or do they all go to "regular" Summit?

 

[CheerBank]

I don’t have problems with satellite gyms who have never had a Worlds team....but a mega gym with multiple world teams already don’t need to have an XS team.

I'll play...coming from a gym that fielded a large and two medium teams last season...if they have more Worlds eligible athletes not placed on teams, why not form an XS as another team? It could be a feeder team for the other Worlds teams, and give those athletes a year of experience on the mat at Worlds. It could also be a good experience for a newer coach.

I would rather see that XS should be left to gyms that are fielding only one Worlds team, or to satellite gyms as their only team, but if you are going to open the floodgates then it has to be for all.

 

[UCFKnights07]

ultimately it probably came down to money (cause it always does), and possibly larger gyms complaining that they had the athletes to form XS teams but werent allowed due to the rules that were in place.
i loved the idea behind the extra small division and the rules that were put in place for it, but ultimately i think it was bound to happen at some point for opening up the division to everyone...

 

[fullinitup]

Everyone wants more competition but adding more divisions doesn't solve that problem it just makes it worse. We should be getting rid of divisions or at least making certain divisions with low enrollment eligible at only one summit. Certain divisions need to not be split between large gym or small gym to ensure good healthy competition. Ex youth 4 medium youth 3 some of the restricted 5 teams

 

[Keep_Believing]

Anyone know if the amazing IO 5 teams from Canada will go International or Open now that it's 2 separate World divisions?

 

[cheermommaRN]

I definitely don't want to see 4 weeks of major competition at Disney. I would rather they make a D2 Senior all girl and coed divisions at the pre-existing Worlds. You can only get a bid at a D2 competition and there are no wildcards or at-large bids. You either get paid or partial paid. One day of prelims if you have over 10, top 10 teams go to 2 day competition. Hold these divisions alternating with their large gym counterparts.

 

[WinstonsGirl]

Anyone know if the amazing IO 5 teams from Canada will go International or Open now that it's 2 separate World divisions?

I'm also curious to see how this Intl/Open split will pan out. I feel like it's going to dilute the divisions, as teams move between Intl and Open to where they feel they have a better chance of globing.

And although no one out of the US gets the division changes, since we're not allowed to see anything from USASF anymore, I do applaud them for getting this out before a good chunk of tryouts have been completed (or at least very early in the season) rather than deciding this in November and making changes then.

 

[mncheerqueen]

Could a D2 trials for teams at Worlds (similar to what they already do for international teams) work? So top three D2 teams (in respective divisions) go to finals?

 

[mama2twinsplus1]

I think this ultimately helps cheer gym franchises/locations that have much smaller base than their larger main location counterparts. For example, I mean it’s unlikely that stingrays Michigan is sharing athletes with Marietta. Stingrays MI should be able to field an XS team.

THIS! This makes absolute sense. Perhaps it should be determined by the number of athletes per location.

 

[CC1107]

I saw it suggested on twitter and I believe it could be a compromise in the case of franchise gyms that don't have worlds teams at each location. The Extra Small division being for a gym that can only field a SINGLE worlds team at their location. This does not go in line with the rest of the franchise but the rest of the location itself. Yes people would argue that it would still be unfair as it does not allow the other big gyms to field teams when they have the capacity too, but it would at least incorporate franchise expansions in whilst keeping in line with the traditional format that the division debuted in.

That is as me on Twitter ;). I left that discussion when it turned into me wanting an easy path to a globe for my daughter. I wasted too many minutes of my life fighting with internet strangers yesterday and when I wouldn’t concede that my opinion was absolutely incorrect they it had to be cause I was looking to “cheat”. Lol

But what my big point is...USASF were the ones that made it a thing last year. A division for those gyms who can only field small numbers. Don’t create a Division like that, sell it as that, repackage it simply 12 months later in the name of money.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

Frankly, there should be a D2 Worlds - you can have it the same weekend. Once everyone splits out, it should be about the same numbers as you get now, maybe a little more, but not much. The release of the XS's may have been a preparation for just that.

But with Worlds and Summit, I also think there should be a minimum score (like, say 94) to get a bid. Some of these divisions are enormous for no good reason, so it doesn't really reflect that it's a Championship.