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ErinS said:
I stopped in 2015 when my former boss and former student were killed at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston , SC. The aftermath—which you won’t get from my perspective because you didn’t live it.
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No disrespect, but what does that have to do with the pledge and the anthem? I am trying to understand where u r coming from but I’m having a hard time.
 
I always refused to say the pledge once I was old enough to know that I was allowed to (6th grade maybe?). I never put my hand over my heart or sing the anthem, though at sporting events I do tend to follow the social norm of standing. I will say, having been a history major with a concentration in American history was amazing. Add to that, my own research that I've done, it's amazing what you don't know you don't know. History has always been told by those who win and changed to fit their narrative. It really is eye-opening when you start to learn about everything that gets left out.
 
History is one of those things where it seems that it’s changed to the “bad” guys being the “good” guys, and that certain things in history weren’t as bad as they were perceived. My grandmother was a history professor and I end up learning a lot more from her than I ever did from my history teachers throughout my middle and high school years.

I remember one year i had a history teacher that taught us about the “kkk” and he seriously said “they weren’t racist people, they were just trying to help and make the world a better place.” As someone who is biracial that really didn’t sit right with meZ
 
NJ Coach said:
I always refused to say the pledge once I was old enough to know that I was allowed to (6th grade maybe?). I never put my hand over my heart or sing the anthem, though at sporting events I do tend to follow the social norm of standing. I will say, having been a history major with a concentration in American history was amazing. Add to that, my own research that I've done, it's amazing what you don't know you don't know. History has always been told by those who win and changed to fit their narrative. It really is eye-opening when you start to learn about everything that gets left out.
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This.

Additionally in 3rd grade there was a girl that was a JW that didn’t stand and I remember wishing I could be like her. I ask as a kid never sang or recited, but I did stand because I was conditioned (and told to). Again. I stood until my late 20s.
 
cac4life said:
No disrespect, but what does that have to do with the pledge and the anthem? I am trying to understand where u r coming from but I’m having a hard time.
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When you look at America, the two most financially successful races are Asian and Easter Indian. When you look at poverty, the poorest are African American/Black and Hispanic/Latino. Interestingly enough, both ends of the spectrum are POC. Look to the most financially successful for the answer and you will see Asians and Eastern Indian cultures have two things in common, iron clad generational strong family bonds/networks and incredible emphasis on education. When you look to the Hispanic/Latino communities, they are generally poor coming to America and have to overcome the language barrier, however, they are acquiring savings and wealth at a faster pace than African Americans/Blacks. Again, multi-generational living is helping the Hispanic/Latino population to acquire/save money. So, the question then becomes, "why" or what happened to our African American/Black communities, because prior to the 1930's they were gaining wealth. The answer is Redlining and other government stipulations on assistance programs.

I grew up up in St. Louis, and it wasn't until I moved to Atlanta that I realized what redlining was. If you read the following article <click here> it will tell you what redlining is and how it was used. Back in the 1930's there was a popular home called a triple decker that became popular, it allowed multi-generational/families to live under one roof and it was a great way to acquire financial independence. However, many deemed it "immigration housing" and through zoning laws, many areas stopped allowing it. Hence redlining began:

In St. Louis, of the areas graded "Best" in the 1930s, 75% of land is currently zoned exclusively single-family. For the "Still Desirable" category, 50% of land is currently zoned exclusively single-family.

Banks and insurance companies would using these rankings of "hazardous, declining, desirable, and best" to loan and insure properties. African American/Black communities were often deemed "hazardous and declining" effecting loans and insurance, and ultimately, these tactics were used to keep people within certain parameters effecting their wealth and educational opportunities. Through redlining and other government stipulations with assistance it effected the family unit. I, like you, stand for the flag because I still believe in America and the desire to do and be better. I respect those that I feel died with that desire in mind, but I also have no issue with those that turn their backs and let it be known "enough is enough" and we need to do "better" faster.
 
I stopped saying the pledge around the 9th Grade. I will never put my hand over my heart during the anthem. My husband fought in a war we had no business in and gave his body for it (body, not life...just to state the difference). Our country has a lot of problems, and excusing those problems by saying other nations also have problems, is gaslighting and a fallacy. After living in Europe for a few years I came back even more cynical of the lies our nation tells itself to excuse the abhorrent behavior of the past, present and future.

Also, the obsession with the flag makes little sense to me...and my husband for what its worth. He didn't take his oath to a flag, he took his oath to the people of the United States and to protect them from all threats domestic or abroad. The problem is that the threats are not from abroad---they never really have been, not proportionally to what we see in some areas of the country, but the threat from within is what will cause us to fall. Its gone ignored for way, way too long.
 
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