All-Star Prepping For The Cheerpocalypse: What Will We Do When Shtf?

[King]

@King I found a comment of yours on an old thread that I liked:

"I see cheer having a very gymnastic makeup in a few years. Lots of competition and gyms in the level 1-3s, a fewer number if gyms with level 4, and even less with level 5. That's not necessarily a bad thing and means a Lot of competition for levels 1-3 (which is most of cheer). It will mean a big increase in safety and a more secure income for smaller gyms. Once an athlete is ready to go level 5 then they would move."

Does anyone else see this happening?

My other question is, what would stop kids from simply going to a bigger gym from day 1? Or would this have no impact on smaller gyms' ability to bring in lower-level athletes?

The new scoresheet and summit is definitely encouraging that model. I am all for it.

What would stop kids from going to a bigger gym day 1? Time, distance, money. As long as they can get a similar experience for the money and level at a lower level smaller gyms should have a shot.

 

[Nothanks]

Spirit Celebrations is an IEP. Jammy is relatively large but not on the scale of Varsity, and there are several IEPs that work together that are not under either umbrella.
They are sanctioned through USASF as that is the governing body, and they all (or the vast majority) offer Worlds bids through the USASF as that is the premiere end of season competition for our sport. They are detached from Varsity at this point. They are not under the Varsity umbrella and are independent corporations. While I may side eye the whole USASF/Varsity situation (or have in the past), it is possible for these companies to work under our governing body and not be a part of the Varsity machine.

I was thinking of spirit fest. Whoops.

I know usasf isn't varsity. But there's been enough of that side eye going on for a while to have to question how those companies would deal without varsity or if there ever were to be a real legitimate competitor, who they would side with.




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[cheerKT]

Randy Dickey runs UCF competitions which puts on a two day event in SC every year. They are not affiliated with Varsity.

 

[Ashley]

I guess I'm naive, but I do think there's a place for smaller gyms outside the Varsity "program." Our former gym didn't do Varsity comps, didn't have Varsity uniforms. And parents were still paying tuition every month. I never heard anyone complain that we weren't going to Summit. We did switch gyms this year, and the new one is aligned with Varsity. And you know what? The cost isn't significantly higher. I guess it will be IF CP's team gets a Summit bid, but that's not guaranteed.

I don't hear parents complaining that Little League is a monopoly. It used to be the only thing there was. Now there are tons of different travel leagues, fall ball, entire sports complexes and businesses built on year round baseball training. Little League didn't kill baseball. It grew it.

Little League is a non-profit, that's the big difference. And little league is for kids, it doesn't attempt to interfere with high school or college.

i cant imagine all star cheer ever going away..... a little off topic but if you look at say the pop warner side of cheerleading, it has gotten significantly larger since i was in it (which was a long*** time ago, but still, ha). where do you think all those kids eventually get into after pop warner is over and they age off... they probably are already either part of an allstar gym or transition into one. obviously there are differences between the two, Cost being the obvious difference. but i cant see it ever completely going away. People will continue to pay, as long as they enjoy it and its a positive thing for their kid.

High school. Pop Warner is basically the equivalent of Little League for football and cheer. You age out of the youth program and join the high school team - or end your career if you aren't good enough. Pop Warner is sort of a parallel to All Star, but it's not really a feeder program.

 

[quitthedrama]

I was thinking of spirit fest. Whoops.

I know usasf isn't varsity. But there's been enough of that side eye going on for a while to have to question how those companies would deal without varsity or if there ever were to be a real legitimate competitor, who they would side with.




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This is really my biggest issue with Varsity, along with STP and the shenanigans that go on at some of their competitions with hotels. Varsity does do a lot of things right. I do enjoy their competitions and I don't feel I get jacked on the athlete registration. I do feel spectator pricing is too high but it is something that I can live with. I feel overall their uniforms are very good quality at a "not unfair" price, if compared to other uniform companies. I don't have any first hand experience with their camps but I have heard good things overall. I have no problem with Varsity making a profit, and I do think they paved the way for what cheer is today, which is more good than bad IMO.
What I can't live with is the relationship with USASF and the Big Brother STP tactics - both of which have been discussed in other treads.
I don't think the "demise of cheer" will ever happen. Varsity is here to stay, but even if they weren't, there is an established governing body that can only be improved upon, and there are enough established EPs who could easily add more competitions. The industry also already has a competition sponsored by a well known corporation, and I could see more of those happening. I do see a decrease in younger aged divisions in my area, so I think the expense is turning people away from cheer, but the market can easily adjust to that and still be profitable.

 

[XtremeWpg]

I'd say move to Quebec. It's not perfect, but let me tell you a little more about the way things work here.

Cheer is considered a sport here. It's not driven by a business, but by a provincial federation. The people on the board are elected by coaches and owners. We have Kick's and Cheer Evolution that produce competitions, but it's about it for private companies on our territory. You can produce an event and if it's approved by the federation, they lend you their judges.

They have an ethical code and deontological one too. You can report something bad any time.

You have to be a member of the federation to have access to a bid to Worlds, even if your bid comes from Kick's.

To be a member costs 20-30$ for a year per athlete/coach/etc. That 20$ includes something important: Sport insurance (dental and medical). THANK. GOD. Healthcare is free here, but most of us go see physiotherapists in a private practice so it costs money.

We have rules regarding athletes switching gyms so you won't hear much drama about it here.

As a member, you are invited to general meetings. If you can't attend, you receive a report by email and you can read it on their website. There are other events for coaches or owners to attend and give their opinion.

You CAN do All-Star and School.

FCQ doesn't sell uniforms or shoes or any apparel for that matter.

Is it perfect? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I forgot to mention something important. But I believe this is a good example to follow. Is it possible for states to do the same? I don't know. But why not take a lot around and see what others do. Maybe just... maybe... this could inspire someone somewhere.

This!

I'm in Manitoba, and tho we currently have 2 provincial organizations (which is a whole other topic) I know that the Manitoba Cheer Federation doesn't have any business stake in cheer. Competitions are actually hosted by local gyms under sanctioning from the MCF, who also provide judges and some guidance. We can all attend the AGMs. The idea of being bound to Varsity, or JamBrands for that matter, is very strange to me!

 

[Lazydaisytoo]

High school. Pop Warner is basically the equivalent of Little League for football and cheer. You age out of the youth program and join the high school team - or end your career if you aren't good enough. Pop Warner is sort of a parallel to All Star, but it's not really a feeder program.

This may vary regionally. I'd say that All Star is still relatively unknown in my area. My daughter did competitive rec cheer and went to All Star when she aged out-- along with several friends on her team. In our area, youth sports leagues have very successful competitive cheer teams, and many move on to All Star either upon ageing out or when the family wants more out of cheer. The HS in my district is not at all competitive for cheer, and my very driven kid wanted nothing to do with dumbing down her skills in order to cheer for school.

My daughter may have been farther ahead by now if she'd started out in AS and stayed there, but at the same time, there really weren't (and still aren't) many AS gyms in my area. If that had been the only option for cheer, she may not have done it at all.

 

[Keep_Believing]

*

 

[AndyT_T]

I'd say move to Quebec. It's not perfect, but let me tell you a little more about the way things work here.

Cheer is considered a sport here. It's not driven by a business, but by a provincial federation. The people on the board are elected by coaches and owners. We have Kick's and Cheer Evolution that produce competitions, but it's about it for private companies on our territory. You can produce an event and if it's approved by the federation, they lend you their judges.

They have an ethical code and deontological one too. You can report something bad any time.

You have to be a member of the federation to have access to a bid to Worlds, even if your bid comes from Kick's.

To be a member costs 20-30$ for a year per athlete/coach/etc. That 20$ includes something important: Sport insurance (dental and medical). THANK. GOD. Healthcare is free here, but most of us go see physiotherapists in a private practice so it costs money.

We have rules regarding athletes switching gyms so you won't hear much drama about it here.

As a member, you are invited to general meetings. If you can't attend, you receive a report by email and you can read it on their website. There are other events for coaches or owners to attend and give their opinion.

You CAN do All-Star and School.

FCQ doesn't sell uniforms or shoes or any apparel for that matter.

Is it perfect? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I forgot to mention something important. But I believe this is a good example to follow. Is it possible for states to do the same? I don't know. But why not take a lot around and see what others do. Maybe just... maybe... this could inspire someone somewhere.

Literally how the whole industry should be. As a french major who loves winter and cheerleading, why havent I relocated yet?

 

[Twinklestars]

This may vary regionally. I'd say that All Star is still relatively unknown in my area. My daughter did competitive rec cheer and went to All Star when she aged out-- along with several friends on her team. In our area, youth sports leagues have very successful competitive cheer teams, and many move on to All Star either upon ageing out or when the family wants more out of cheer. The HS in my district is not at all competitive for cheer, and my very driven kid wanted nothing to do with dumbing down her skills in order to cheer for school.

My daughter may have been farther ahead by now if she'd started out in AS and stayed there, but at the same time, there really weren't (and still aren't) many AS gyms in my area. If that had been the only option for cheer, she may not have done it at all.

There is a different skill set involved in school cheer. Skills that don't always transfer from allstar to actual cheerleading.

 

[dance_extreme_94]

Glad I saw this thread.

I don't think all star cheerleading will go away. Having said that, I do think that many small gyms will eventually start to rapidly close in the next few years. I know every gym has its financial issues even big gyms, but I feel that a lot of small gyms get the worst mess of the financial side. I do know people who do all stars, and many of them are with small gyms. From my perspective, it seems that lots of small gyms obviously don't have enough students to keep up with the financial burdens that USASF requires. The annual membership fee, the harsh certification process if you have to fly out of state, for one small gym owner I used to know it cost them between 600-700 to get certified, and that's including flying out of state, round trip plane tickets, etc. That was a huge burden for her.

Also the age grid is something that I think hurts the small gyms the most. Many of them do not have enough members to make a full team, they also have many cross overs, they also have deal with lots of transfer students. Once their skills are level 3 or 4 worthy, many of them move on to the bigger gyms to be on the teams that fits their skill set because their original gym didn't have a place for them. I find it to be really heart breaking, and sad.

I believe that the main reason youth leagues such as Pop Warner, and AYC etc have grown so much over the years is because a lot of the programs are cost effective. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Pop Warner requires that anything that is costly must be done through fundraising. Youth leauges has been proven over the years to be cost-effect.

With All stars, most gyms, and parents are spending 3k a season. I could only imagine what its like for those gyms that have multiple locations.

 

[SLM]

Something I see a lot of in my area is local "gymnastics" centers that field one or two teams, or cheer programs that are not truly rec because they don't cheer for a sport, etc but are not as pulled together as an all star program that compete at mostly local rec comps, or enter comps like Jamfest, Reach the Beach etc on the rec weekends. They charge a fraction of the cost of an all star program, even compared to the half year teams in our area and then fund raise like crazy. They advertise themselves as a local rec program which helps with fund raising.

They compete against true rec teams who aren't allowed to pay for choreography, make cuts, and have to make due with the kids they have from only the school district they are in whereas they pull from multiple districts, etc. Have their own designated facility, so they win a lot. A few of the local programs like this have more teams then the local all star gyms.

 

[Lazydaisytoo]

There is a different skill set involved in school cheer. Skills that don't always transfer from allstar to actual cheerleading.

Very true.

Something I see a lot of in my area is local "gymnastics" centers that field one or two teams, or cheer programs that are not truly rec because they don't cheer for a sport, etc but are not as pulled together as an all star program that compete at mostly local rec comps, or enter comps like Jamfest, Reach the Beach etc on the rec weekends. They charge a fraction of the cost of an all star program, even compared to the half year teams in our area and then fund raise like crazy. They advertise themselves as a local rec program which helps with fund raising.

They compete against true rec teams who aren't allowed to pay for choreography, make cuts, and have to make due with the kids they have from only the school district they are in whereas they pull from multiple districts, etc. Have their own designated facility, so they win a lot. A few of the local programs like this have more teams then the local all star gyms.

Yes, this is what I was talking about above, and it's common in my area. CP cheered on the local rec team's comp cheer team, but there were other "rec" programs in the area that had relationships with cheer gyms or gymnastic centers where they could practice. We literally practices in HS hallways and cafeterias (where we could barely pyramid due to the ceiling) and the only time the girls were on a regular mat was one night before a comp when we rented a cheer gym.

Our old program is still doing the yell/signs/poms in the middle of the routine, while the more competitive rec programs have long since gone "all music." And our program required the kids to do sideline cheer for the whole football season before moving on to competitions. Other programs get around that by having Varsity/JV systems where the JV kids do the sideline, and the Varsity are the comp team.

As far as the costs, it all depends on the program. Our old program was pretty inexpensive, as there was only one travel comp, and it was driving distance. Again, the more competitive programs travel extensively, and like you said, also fundraise extensively. Here's an example of one of the highly competitive rec teams in my area:

 

[mamabear]

Omg, @Lazydaisytoo , I love Penndel Wildcats. They were at the first comp that we ever competed all star at . Back when we were doing both ayc and allstar and they really stood out that day.

 

[uhhlyssa01]

Very true.

Yes, this is what I was talking about above, and it's common in my area. CP cheered on the local rec team's comp cheer team, but there were other "rec" programs in the area that had relationships with cheer gyms or gymnastic centers where they could practice. We literally practices in HS hallways and cafeterias (where we could barely pyramid due to the ceiling) and the only time the girls were on a regular mat was one night before a comp when we rented a cheer gym.

Our old program is still doing the yell/signs/poms in the middle of the routine, while the more competitive rec programs have long since gone "all music." And our program required the kids to do sideline cheer for the whole football season before moving on to competitions. Other programs get around that by having Varsity/JV systems where the JV kids do the sideline, and the Varsity are the comp team.

As far as the costs, it all depends on the program. Our old program was pretty inexpensive, as there was only one travel comp, and it was driving distance. Again, the more competitive programs travel extensively, and like you said, also fundraise extensively. Here's an example of one of the highly competitive rec teams in my area:

The thing with rec though is there is no governing body to separate the "rec" teams that have a practice facility and train vs. the "rec" teams that cheer peewee football all year and compete at one competition for fun. As long as they fit in a generic set of guidelines the EP sets (which can vary by EP) anyone can compete rec.