Pro Con - Athlete Database/ID cards

[Deleted member 15]

I am all for it because it prevents 'rumors'. If there is a $20 dollar registration fee per kid for the USASF to register and look at each birth certificate and enter them into a computer... well... I will do that for $20 a certificate :).

I do not think saying it is too costly or too much manpower is a solution, it is avoiding what needs to be done.

I know I don't have the solution, but I haven't heard a reasonable one yet from anyone else. Cost has to be a consideration because if we raise the cost of entry to All Stars we are likely to prevent more kids from getting started in it, slowly killing the industry.

You threw out $20 as a cost, based on what? Is the USASF going to be able to come to my gym to look at birth certificates, etc., or do I have to send my parents to Memphis/Atlanta/Dallas? If my families need to go someplace the cost to them isn't $20 when you factor in travel and time.

Now picture having a conversation with a new to All Stars parent that walks into your gym. You have to tell them before they will get a chance to see their kid compete they have to pay the gym a registration fee, pay the gym a tuition fee or two, order a uniform and various other clothing items, pay a competition entry fee, and travel someplace to register with the USASF. Do you think this will prevent people from joining All Stars?

I dont think anyone wants to go to the usasf to register
i think he meant send them a copy of the birth certificate.

i feel like when you register for any other sport you have to bring your birth certificate and they check it. and with cheer its just like hey if we ask for it, you should have one

The benefit is substantially reduced if not checked in person.

 

[Deleted member 15]

also, for verification. I would say that the gym could send all of their athletes invitations to the system. You get to set up your account on there and enter information (most peoples parents would do this). Once your information is entered, you can NOT change it. Maybe you can change your address and once a year you can alter the childs height and weight. if you need to change anything mid year, you have to submit a request.

How does this verify anything? You still have families/gyms entering the info without anyone independent being involved.

 

[King]

The benefit is substantially reduced if not checked in person.

I tis obvious you are against the whole idea. My main question is why?

 

[CharlotteASMom]

I hate to keep saying "well in soccer" BUT in soccer (lol) you have a club registrar. At the beginning of the season every parent has to show up on a specific day at the field with paperwork, a copy of the birth certificate, and a current 1x1 inch color photo. The club registrar verifies all info then send it into the NCYSA for carding.

I guess you could find many holes in this but the bottom line is to minimalize cheating as much as possible. I mean good grief....we can't even verify the ages of Chinese gymnasts. I don't think cheating can be eliminated but with a paper trail most gyms will think twice about it.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

It is impossible to get an outside party to enter all of the information. If a gym cheats with one athlete. They aren't going to cheat with everyone. And things have to be verified over time. Its not going to be perfect right off the bat. Even if they had someone drive from gym to gym to register athletes it still wouldn't work. And if we make people register in person. They might as well be credentialed by another person other than their coach.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

also, for verification. I would say that the gym could send all of their athletes invitations to the system. You get to set up your account on there and enter information (most peoples parents would do this). Once your information is entered, you can NOT change it. Maybe you can change your address and once a year you can alter the childs height and weight. if you need to change anything mid year, you have to submit a request.

How does this verify anything? You still have families/gyms entering the info without anyone independent being involved.

things would get weeded out eventually
there is no way to stop anything dead in its tracks nowadays.
also, im sure half of the parents dont even realize their jr age daughter is on a sr team illegally. The less people that know, the better... So the more hands in the pot, the less likely cheating will happen.

and again. the sole purpose of this system can NOT be to only eliminate cheating. there needs to be other uses to make it worth while.

 

[Deleted member 15]

The benefit is substantially reduced if not checked in person.

I tis obvious you are against the whole idea. My main question is why?

I'm not against the idea, but don't think it has been well thought out yet.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

The benefit is substantially reduced if not checked in person.

I tis obvious you are against the whole idea. My main question is why?

I'm not against the idea, but don't think it has been well thought out yet.

it has a pretty strong foundation to stand on already.
i think it won't get fully thought out until someone does more research, and i can't say im gonna volunteer all of my time to this when i have a full time job + cheer just like everyone else.

i think the purpose of this thread is to talk it out enough until someone with some sort of power is ready to back it up.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I hate to keep saying "well in soccer" BUT in soccer (lol) you have a club registrar. At the beginning of the season every parent has to show up on a specific day at the field with paperwork, a copy of the birth certificate, and a current 1x1 inch color photo. The club registrar verifies all info then send it into the NCYSA for carding.

I guess you could find many holes in this but the bottom line is to minimalize cheating as much as possible. I mean good grief....we can't even verify the ages of Chinese gymnasts. I don't think cheating can be eliminated but with a paper trail most gyms will think twice about it.

Do the club registrars work for the team or the league?

The examples being given as good ways of verifying involve doing it in person, but when applied to cheerleading it changes to sending information in. I think in person is necessary but there are costs associated with it that people keep conveniently looking past. Raising the barriers to entry to All Stars is not a way to make it grow and therefore is not a good idea for the long term health of All Stars.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I hate to keep saying "well in soccer" BUT in soccer (lol) you have a club registrar. At the beginning of the season every parent has to show up on a specific day at the field with paperwork, a copy of the birth certificate, and a current 1x1 inch color photo. The club registrar verifies all info then send it into the NCYSA for carding.

I guess you could find many holes in this but the bottom line is to minimalize cheating as much as possible. I mean good grief....we can't even verify the ages of Chinese gymnasts. I don't think cheating can be eliminated but with a paper trail most gyms will think twice about it.

Do the club registrars work for the team or the league?

The examples being given as good ways of verifying involve doing it in person, but when applied to cheerleading it changes to sending information in. I think in person is necessary but there are costs associated with it that people keep conveniently looking past. Raising the barriers to entry to All Stars is not a way to make it grow and therefore is not a good idea for the long term health of All Stars.

new idea....
there is a generic form that has to get filled out...
basic information on it.
every parent has to get it notarized. after it is notarized either the gym or a parent enters in the information. and then send the documents to the USASF. (or maybe the usasf would enter in the info from the notarized form) But that may reduce the costs of having an USASF staff member individually registering all the teams. and if you find a notary that is willing to verify false information, they will have consequences of their own.

 

[Deleted member 15]

it has a pretty strong foundation to stand on already.
i think it won't get fully thought out until someone does more research, and i can't say im gonna volunteer all of my time to this when i have a full time job + cheer just like everyone else.

i think the purpose of this thread is to talk it out enough until someone with some sort of power is ready to back it up.

Kingston tends to start with the information being in the database and being correct, but hasn't let us know how this will happen.

You and I disagree on the ability to reduce/prevent cheating if the info is entered by the gyms/families and the necessity of getting a 3rd party involved. We seem to agree on some of the other benefits, specifically industry trends, that could come from having information that hasn't been verified.

Garbage in leads to garbage coming out. My question is how do we get useful information in without increasing the barriers to entry to a point where the benefits outweigh the costs?

 

[Deleted member 15]

I hate to keep saying "well in soccer" BUT in soccer (lol) you have a club registrar. At the beginning of the season every parent has to show up on a specific day at the field with paperwork, a copy of the birth certificate, and a current 1x1 inch color photo. The club registrar verifies all info then send it into the NCYSA for carding.

I guess you could find many holes in this but the bottom line is to minimalize cheating as much as possible. I mean good grief....we can't even verify the ages of Chinese gymnasts. I don't think cheating can be eliminated but with a paper trail most gyms will think twice about it.

Do the club registrars work for the team or the league?

The examples being given as good ways of verifying involve doing it in person, but when applied to cheerleading it changes to sending information in. I think in person is necessary but there are costs associated with it that people keep conveniently looking past. Raising the barriers to entry to All Stars is not a way to make it grow and therefore is not a good idea for the long term health of All Stars.

new idea....
there is a generic form that has to get filled out...
basic information on it.
every parent has to get it notarized. after it is notarized either the gym or a parent enters in the information. and then send the documents to the USASF. (or maybe the usasf would enter in the info from the notarized form) But that may reduce the costs of having an USASF staff member individually registering all the teams. and if you find a notary that is willing to verify false information, they will have consequences of their own.

This sounds like a step in the right direction.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

The club registrar is a notarized person that works for the club. A director of a gym would be comparable or a team mom that works for all the teams. The point is that the gym sends in a document that says to USASF "This child is of a certain age". This way there are no excuses of....."The parent told me they were a certain age"..."I thought they were a certain age"....I didn't understand the age requirements"...etc.

I really don't think this adds any barriers to joining allstars. CAC already collects birth certificates when you first register your child in the program. I assume this is to first verify for themselves where your child should be placed and second can easily squash any accusations of cheating.

All we are doing is sending this same info to a governing body. As far as the cost, it has to be minimal at best. I mean we are already spending thousands of dollars for our kids to compete. If it takes another $20 to give the sport some legitimacy then so be it.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I hate to keep saying "well in soccer" BUT in soccer (lol) you have a club registrar. At the beginning of the season every parent has to show up on a specific day at the field with paperwork, a copy of the birth certificate, and a current 1x1 inch color photo. The club registrar verifies all info then send it into the NCYSA for carding.

I guess you could find many holes in this but the bottom line is to minimalize cheating as much as possible. I mean good grief....we can't even verify the ages of Chinese gymnasts. I don't think cheating can be eliminated but with a paper trail most gyms will think twice about it.

Do the club registrars work for the team or the league?

The examples being given as good ways of verifying involve doing it in person, but when applied to cheerleading it changes to sending information in. I think in person is necessary but there are costs associated with it that people keep conveniently looking past. Raising the barriers to entry to All Stars is not a way to make it grow and therefore is not a good idea for the long term health of All Stars.

new idea....
there is a generic form that has to get filled out...
basic information on it.
every parent has to get it notarized. after it is notarized either the gym or a parent enters in the information. and then send the documents to the USASF. (or maybe the usasf would enter in the info from the notarized form) But that may reduce the costs of having an USASF staff member individually registering all the teams. and if you find a notary that is willing to verify false information, they will have consequences of their own.

This sounds like a step in the right direction.

Having someone hired by the USASF to do all of the entering of information and verifying things in person would definitely be a way to increase the cost a lot. And i don't see a lot of money being funneled into this program when it starts.

this may get the thread off topic, but what if USASF sanctioned events actually had a USASF rep there. This person would be able to verify all of the athletes information (only needed for a few competitions) and then also see how the competition is. I feel like the USASF should care more about how the competition is ran in addition to what rules they are using and how many teams attend.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

i also feel like registering the athlete could be bundled with credentialing the athlete. cost wise
since coaches are the ones that credential them, that information could also be added to their database profiles.