Qualifying for Nationals & Day 2

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Dec 14, 2009
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I posted this elsewhere and after I posted it, I thought it might be a good discussion in the industry section. If it belongs some place else, please feel free to transfer it!

Exactly from my other post:

I am aging my self here but...NCA and most other 2 day competitions used to be super prestigious. To qualify to DAY 1 you have to place well at a regional event or by video judging. To qualify to DAY 2 you had to place well DAY 1. It was such an honor to make it to DAY 2 alone! I wish we could go back to this way. I know it is expensive to travel for a 1 day competition (specially if you don't make day 2) but we did it and it was such a great experience - Also helps that flights into Dallas were/are cheap!

Now that I think about it, high school and college nationals still do it like this so why can't we in All Star? Would this make these events even more appealing to non worlds teams? Any thoughts?
 
Dont most competitions kind of sort of do this? I know a lot of our regional (local 1-day events) normally give you something during awards. It's annoying. I hate it. They will be like "and placing 89th.... qualifying for our big super-duper-extra exciting-elite two-day Nationals event.... we have Hoosier Barn Spirit Excaliber Dynamite Elite Athletics Cheer Academy" Then when they call the first place team, they qualify too. I hate that EVERYONE ALWAYS qualifies at those regional events. I think it would appeal more to people if like only Top 3 or something like that got them, but then again, usually at small local competitions here in Saint Louis, there are barely 3 teams per division.

I dont handle or know too much about the business side of it from a gyms standpoint. Do competition companies offer you discounts if you attend a smaller regionals? Or even a couple of their events prior to their big event? If not, I think that could be a bigger incentive to help with costs if you are truely worried you wont make it to Day 2.
 
I posted this elsewhere and after I posted it, I thought it might be a good discussion in the industry section. If it belongs some place else, please feel free to transfer it!

Exactly from my other post:

I am aging my self here but...NCA and most other 2 day competitions used to be super prestigious. To qualify to DAY 1 you have to place well at a regional event or by video judging. To qualify to DAY 2 you had to place well DAY 1. It was such an honor to make it to DAY 2 alone! I wish we could go back to this way. I know it is expensive to travel for a 1 day competition (specially if you don't make day 2) but we did it and it was such a great experience - Also helps that flights into Dallas were/are cheap!

Now that I think about it, high school and college nationals still do it like this so why can't we in All Star? Would this make these events even more appealing to non worlds teams? Any thoughts?

I agree with you. I think I would like to see that especially at the Major Nationals.

IIRC from the previous boards the issue that kept coming up was $$$$. That if a child/team was not guarenteed to make it to Day 2 regardless of performance, why spend the $$$$ to go for only 1 guarenteed day? In trying to appeal to the the majority of cheer gyms you had to do something or lose them.
 
Dont most competitions kind of sort of do this? I know a lot of our regional (local 1-day events) normally give you something during awards. It's annoying. I hate it. They will be like "and placing 89th.... qualifying for our big super-duper-extra exciting-elite two-day Nationals event.... we have Hoosier Barn Spirit Excaliber Dynamite Elite Athletics Cheer Academy" Then when they call the first place team, they qualify too. I hate that EVERYONE ALWAYS qualifies at those regional events. I think it would appeal more to people if like only Top 3 or something like that got them, but then again, usually at small local competitions here in Saint Louis, there are barely 3 teams per division.

I dont handle or know too much about the business side of it from a gyms standpoint. Do competition companies offer you discounts if you attend a smaller regionals? Or even a couple of their events prior to their big event? If not, I think that could be a bigger incentive to help with costs if you are truely worried you wont make it to Day 2.

Most competition companies have "incentives" to get you to attend their events. Whether it is a rebate kickback, or a guarenteed invitation to their main Nationals or Season Ending event, it is done by every company, big or small. Yes gyms are given discounts to attend smaller reginal events because everyone knows if gym a and b come then gyms c,d,e,f,and g will definitley come. Or if gym A does not come, then they will have gym B - K come because they dont want to compete against gym a for whatever reason. Competion comapnies are just as aware of the drama, rivalries, and competitive spirit of the gyms that they are trying to get to attend their event just as we are...lol. They know how to push those buttons too.

Also it is hard to build your local smaller events when there is no major title at stake. The equipment/staffing costs for comp companies to give us everything we want is crazy. And we want no less at the small backyard regional than we would get at a major super national. but we aren't willing to pay for it at the local one.
 
I was thinking that at the regional event 1st place qualifies automatically. If there is only 1 team in the division, that team would have to score 80% of the max possible points for that level. Then any other teams that also gets 80% of the max points available would qualify. Any team that did not qualify could retry at another regional event or by video.
 
I just don't see the whole day 2 qualifications thing taking off again. In this economy, if people are spending the money to travel halfway across the country, they want to get their moneys worth by competition twice. It works at Worlds, but the whole idea of a "Nationals" has gotten so big and widespread, it would be hard to pull this off. Current NCA scoring is pretty close. Everyone competes day 2, but it's worth so much more.
 
I agree with kt. With the economy how it is, this probably wouldn't happen anytime soon because it's not worth the gyms spending the money to go if they aren't guarenteed to compete both days.


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There are gym expenses, but don't forget that parents end up paying for most of the travel expenses of all the athletes.
 
I completely understand the costs involved with travel. We only have one 2-day competition that is less than a 4-5 hr drive from us. So yes I want to get our money's (moneys? moneys'?) worth when we travel. In the past people were making comments that there was not enough competition at many of the competitions, so I was trying to come up with ideas to increase the number of teams to ensure more competition.
 
I do like the old days when you fought for day 2 and if you didnt get 1st at a regionals you went through prelims, then semi finals then if you made it, to finals! but... yes like others said "the economy," but a bigger picture, the industry is 10 times bigger in the allstar world these days compared to the 90's and early 2000's. I dont think and a personal statement and I am not a competition company owner but if I was, I wouldnt want to go back to that bc I feel personally they would loose alot of customers which leads to loosing money which leads to alot less competitions, which leads to more travel for those not in big cities, which leads to gyms closing etc..... you get the point i am sure! LOL but this is my opinion only so take it as you want!!
 
When NCA in Dallas did this, didn't everyone compete 2 days? If I remember correctly, if you didn't more on to finals you still competed on Sunday, but in the "Champion Cup." That could be a solution.
 
I think with the elimination of juniors from worlds the larger nationals really have an opportunity to become more prestigious. This would make them the biggest competition for the younger athletes, and thus would allow them to create a more competitive qualification process that would closer resemble the bids for worlds. I still think everyone should compete both days because especially with younger teams, you don't know who is going to drop a few stunts or have a bad day.
 
I just don't see the whole day 2 qualifications thing taking off again. In this economy, if people are spending the money to travel halfway across the country, they want to get their moneys worth by competition twice. It works at Worlds, but the whole idea of a "Nationals" has gotten so big and widespread, it would be hard to pull this off. Current NCA scoring is pretty close. Everyone competes day 2, but it's worth so much more.

I like "earning" day 2 but fully understand the reason why they changed it. I laugh though because some competitions have like a 20-80 split so in reality day one means nothing.
 
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