All-Star S/o Release Discussion Re: Worlds Athletes

[King]

I'm sure that the views of those two different groups are probably very different. This is oversimplifying things, but the higher up the "food chain" you are, the more likely you are to be opposed to the rule.

Why does this whole rule apply only to Worlds athletes? Because the USASF only has direct control over 1 event a year. Their rules about waivers/etc. only apply to that one because they don't run the other events.

You typed that all faster than I did.

 

[DJ]

I'm sure that the views of those two different groups are probably very different. This is oversimplifying things, but the higher up the "food chain" you are, the more likely you are to be opposed to the rule.

Why does this whole rule apply only to Worlds athletes? Because the USASF only has direct control over 1 event a year. Their rules about waivers/etc. only apply to that one because they don't run the other events.

The USASF has control over 1 event, but still sets forth many other rules that are upheld by many organizations and companies throughout the season. If the competition companies uphold what they rule for Level 1-4 as far as rules and legalities - why the exception?

 

[DJ]

Just want to be clear I am NOT a gym owner.

This rule actually hurts bigger gyms. In the middle of the year if an athlete is disgruntled and would like to go to a bigger (and usually more successful program) and they are level 5 and Worlds eligible and that is their goal they cannot go.

This would be never be passed for anything not Worlds related. It would be unenforceable, hurt all gyms, and what would be the 'carrot' taken away to 'keep people from leaving'?

From my understanding of your reply, again it seems that the USASF is top oriented (Level 5) which does not make up 85% of the teams competing in the country. Based on your reply - I'm getting that "it's too hard to enforce or control" so they just don't concern themselves with anything below Level 5 - except for the dollars being generated through membership of the programs with Level 1-4 teams only.

 

[King]

The USASF has control over 1 event, but still sets forth many other rules that are upheld by many organizations and companies throughout the season. If the competition companies uphold what they rule for Level 1-4 as far as rules and legalities - why the exception?

Because why would any event (Jamfest, NCA, Cheersport) want to track all that and limit their customer base and possibly make a customer mad? An untraceable unenforceable situation. If 10 years if the system is in place to enforce something like this... sure it can be discussed but right now there is no ways and means or support outside of this message board.

 

[DJ]

(Let me clarify - I am not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand myself - seeing how the majority of this thread talks in circles.)

 

[debbie]

So as the rule stands now, if I am to be understanding this correctly:
*You can leave a gym at any time, for any reason.
*You still are not required to finish paying.
*If you are levels 1-5 you do not need a release UNLESS:
-You competed on a Worlds team after Nov. 1st.
-You are intending to compete on another Worlds team that year.
-That team is preparing to secure a bid and hasn't already.
-The gym hasn't collapsed under the weight of awful scandal.

So, if you are levels 1-4, or did not compete on a Worlds team after Nov. 1st, or your gym is no longer around, you do NOT need a release. You do not need a release to tumble at, practice with, or compete for another program. The only time it matters is if you intend to try to go to Worlds with another team after leaving your first gym. NOW- restricted 5/youth 5/junior 5 teams (the very small percentage of them that there are), if one of them would like to switch to a gym that's going to have a senior 5 team, would THEY need a release? Because they intend to go to Worlds and have competed on a team after Nov. 1st?

I think I'm going to start referring to Halloween as 'The Mass Exodus'. Because I feel like everybody will be switching gyms then because it's the last day they can do it without a release...

any kid that competes with gym A on any team or any level needs a release to go to worlds with gym B

 

[lollypop]

After reading through the thread that prompted this one, I just wanted to throw something into the mix: I assume that to compete at Worlds the team needs to be from a USASF gym with a USASF credentialed Level 5 coach. How does this affect teams if either of these factors (requirements?) are not met? And to bring it back to the topic at hand, if your current gym does not meet the requirements to field a Worlds eligible team are you still required a release from your current gym? Even if you've competed Level 5 that year, but due to the above technicalities it is not a valid Worlds team? Or am I over complicating things... Or totally missing the point... :)

 

[kristenthegreat]

any kid that competes with gym A on any team or any level needs a release to go to worlds with gym B

So they do not need a release to cheer at another gym, compete with another program at all other competitions besides Worlds, or to even attend Worlds. The only thing they cannot do is be on the mat with that team.

 

[King]

(Let me clarify - I am not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand myself - seeing how the majority of this thread talks in circles.)

logistically speaking its just not possible. while their may be an appearance of manpower/resources/money to do it there is a lack of all three to get it accomplished at this time.

 

[debbie]

So someone could be on that team and get the bid with them, and then you could kick them off if you get a waiver? I thought you could only compete at Worlds with the people who were on the team when you got the bid?

no you can compete with kids from your gym that hit the floor at the same comp the bid was won (doesnt matter what level) Also the winning bid team turns in I believe a list of names of kids that are hurt or alternates.

 

[kristenthegreat]

no you can compete with kids from your gym that hit the floor at the same comp the bid was won (doesnt matter what level) Also the winning bid team turns in I believe a list of names of kids that are hurt or alternates.

So, by that nature, this is protecting not only the gym owners, but the kids on teams who might get kicked off if say, Sami cheerleader comes strolling in with a double looking for whatever gym will offer her the best deal..if Sami's already competed, she can't compete at worlds without a waiver.

 

[King]

So, by that nature, this is protecting not only the gym owners, but the kids on teams who might get kicked off if say, Sami cheerleader comes strolling in with a double looking for whatever gym will offer her the best deal..if Sami's already competed, she can't compete at worlds without a waiver.

Correct (if you are asking what I think you are asking).

 

[newcheerdad]

That would be more limiting than the current rule.

I'm ok with that. If the idea is to prevent gym-hopping, then prevent it. A waiting period does just that. My proposal wouldn't impact competing with the new gym at non-bid events, or practicing with them. It just says that if you competed with a gym in November at a world's bid event, you can't compete with a new gym at a world's bid event until February or March. If you wanted to add a rule that said that the waiting period could be waived if the former gym signs off on it, then so be it. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

It does everything people want in terms of asking folks to make good decisions about the gym they choose to compete with. It's a complete disincentive to gym hopping. What it doesn't do is put the power in the hands of the gym owner as to whether they grant a release or not, which is my big concern.

I also think you understate the deal about Worlds. For a level 5 senior athlete, this is by and large what their entire season builds towards. If we told any other elite athlete in any other sport that their former club could arbitrarily choose not to allow them to participate in their sport's World Championships, we would think that's outrageous.

 

[BlueCat]

From my understanding of your reply, again it seems that the USASF is top oriented (Level 5) which does not make up 85% of the teams competing in the country. Based on your reply - I'm getting that "it's too hard to enforce or control" so they just don't concern themselves with anything below Level 5 - except for the dollars being generated through membership of the programs with Level 1-4 teams only.

It is "too hard to enforce or control" the events that are run by other people (CheerSport, Jamfest, NCA, etc.). The one they run themselves (USASF Worlds), they do their best to enforce and control who is eligible to compete.

In terms of function, you can essentially split USASF into two main "corporate divisions".
1. Rules, Guidelines, etc. for the entire all star industry.
2. Producers of the Worlds event.

Part 2 is responsible for enforcement of the need-a-waiver rule.

(Part 2 also generates the VAST majority of the revenue for both parts of USASF. If you are going to argue about "taxation without representation" for the non-L5 gyms, you are not going to get sympathy from the gyms with Worlds teams.)

 

[DJ]

It is "too hard to enforce or control" the events that are run by other people (CheerSport, Jamfest, NCA, etc.). The one they run themselves (USASF Worlds), they do their best to enforce and control who is eligible to compete.

In terms of function, you can essentially split USASF into two main "corporate divisions".
1. Rules, Guidelines, etc. for the entire all star industry.
2. Producers of the Worlds event.

Part 2 is responsible for enforcement of the need-a-waiver rule.

(Part 2 also generates the VAST majority of the revenue for both parts of USASF. If you are going to argue about "taxation without representation" for the non-L5 gyms, you are not going to get sympathy from the gyms with Worlds teams.)

Not what I asked for BlueCat - merely playing devils advocate and clarifying who benefits from USASF and why.
Level 5 programs benefit mostly from USASF because Level 5 teams fund the USASF majorly through the Worlds event. Correct?