All-Star S/o Release Discussion Re: Worlds Athletes

[debbie]

It is more economics. The deliverables are not the same, so it wouldn't work just because of the release rule.

can you explain in more detail what you mean?

 

[King]

Is it me or although a good read, starting to give me a headache? I think we have realized as of today, this isn't changing, ways to possibly change, and the outlet to start working on a change which will need to be voted on, correct?

Yes. If this wanted to be changed its a minimum 2 years before anything would happen. By that time I bet the rule would be moot anyway because of the athlete registration system would be more mature and there would be different governing policies. Nothing can be done this year.

 

[King]

can you explain in more detail what you mean?

I will use Cheer Athletics. They have a Worlds winning gym and very successful program. There are smaller gyms in the area (as Dallas is huge). CA decides they have the strictest will not release athletes policy in the US. Every single gym in Dallas has a much easier policy on releasing athletes. Do I think athletes would stay away from CA because of this policy now? No. As the deliverable is a stronger chance of a Worlds title and more competitive environment more people would be willing to accept the release waiver policy.

(yes I know the example ignored quite a few other good Dallas programs and SOT who has won Worlds).

Because not all the deliverables are the same, the motivations are not all the same. If we were talking about buying a car it would be completely different.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

Yes. If this wanted to be changed its a minimum 2 years before anything would happen. By that time I bet the rule would be moot anyway because of the athlete registration system would be more mature and there would be different governing policies. Nothing can be done this year.

Sorry, when I feel like something is going back and forth and there have been answers, I tend to get a PINCH sarcastic :-) Please forgive me :-)

 

[King]

Is it me or although a good read, starting to give me a headache? I think we have realized as of today, this isn't changing, ways to possibly change, and the outlet to start working on a change which will need to be voted on, correct?

I think the general feeling is if people know how MUCH of an outrage this was everyone would get up in arms and change it right now! The reality is this isn't a big deal to 99.9% of people and though there are some hard luck stories in general nothing is gonna change and the majority is not that upset by it.

 

[5-6-7-8]

You can make 10 substitutions. 3 can be from anywhere for anything and the rest HAD to be members of your gym that competed on the floor at that competition.

What if the USASF tightened up this rule as an incentive to address gym hoppers.

Something tied into the Nov 1st date such that any alternates must be registered member of the gym as of Nov 1st to compete with said gym at Worlds.

 

[King]

What if the USASF tightened up this rule as an incentive to address gym hoppers.

Something tied into the Nov 1st date such that any alternates must be registered member of the gym as of Nov 1st to compete with said gym at Worlds.

Originally it was more restrictive. I think this was loosened and the waiver was created to provide stability and flexibility. Now with the wavers though I think you should get to substitute up to 25% from anywhere as long as they dont have an unsigned waiver

 

[debbie]

I will use Cheer Athletics. They have a Worlds winning gym and very successful program. There are smaller gyms in the area (as Dallas is huge). CA decides they have the strictest will not release athletes policy in the US. Every single gym in Dallas has a much easier policy on releasing athletes. Do I think athletes would stay away from CA because of this policy now? No. As the deliverable is a stronger chance of a Worlds title and more competitive environment more people would be willing to accept the release waiver policy.

(yes I know the example ignored quite a few other good Dallas programs and SOT who has won Worlds).

Because not all the deliverables are the same, the motivations are not all the same. If we were talking about buying a car it would be completely different.

you might be right or you might have 50 level 5 parents out ca tryouts that say change your policy or we walk. Either way now usasf doesnt need any resources and parents and gym owners have equal power.

 

[King]

you might be right or you might have 50 level 5 parents out ca tryouts that say change your policy or we walk. Either way now usasf doesnt need any resources and parents and gym owners have equal power.

except teaching all the gyms about the new policy and policing the new policy to make sure gyms are doing it. I don't think you realize the extent of gyms across the country and the lack of infrastructure to enforce all of this. its just NOT there. i still find out things about smaller gyms that I can't believe in more remote places.

 

[debbie]

except teaching all the gyms about the new policy and policing the new policy to make sure gyms are doing it. I don't think you realize the extent of gyms across the country and the lack of infrastructure to enforce all of this. its just NOT there. i still find out things about smaller gyms that I can't believe in more remote places.

This isnt rocket science send an email out to gym owners reguarding new policy. Thats it. And there is no need to police new policy, if a gym doesnt have a signed and dated policy kid is released ..done.

 

[BlueCat]

The USASF has to pick its battles on telling coaches and gym owners what types of changes they have to make to their registration policies and what type of paperwork they need to put money and man-hours into keeping up with.

In the list of the things that USASF should be working on, this is hundreds of spots down from #1. You probably disagree, but that is my opinion.

 

[rpm99]

you might be right or you might have 50 level 5 parents out ca tryouts that say change your policy or we walk. Either way now usasf doesnt need any resources and parents and gym owners have equal power.

No they won't. I know people hear in Illinois at a BIG NAME brand gym and the one that FamousMom is referring to that KNEW about major issues with the owners and coaches (of both gyms) and KNEW the rule of November 1st. But still they CHOSE to stay, hoping for something or a miracle, I guess. Now the crap has hit the fan and we cry foul. I agree that I would like to see additions to the rule to give more protection to parents. Not for the reasons brought in the two threads (personally they're more emotional than logical / but I understand). But to prevent owner/coaches from replacing kids with alternates without real justification after November 1st when the kid can't leave without a release.

Just to be clear. I'm not saying you or FamousMom fit in the category of "KNEW".

 

[debbie]

No they won't. I know people hear in Illinois at a BIG NAME brand gym and the one that FamousMom is referring to that KNEW about major issues with the owners and coaches (of both gyms) and KNEW the rule of November 1st. But still they CHOSE to stay, hoping for something or a miracle, I guess. Now the crap has hit the fan and we cry foul. I agree that I would like to see additions to the rule to give more protection to parents. Not for the reasons brought in the two threads (personally they're more emotional than logical / but I understand). But to prevent owner/coaches from replacing kids with alternates without real justification after November 1st when the kid can't leave without a release.

Just to be clear. I'm not saying you or FamousMom fit in the category of "KNEW".

I competely understand want you are saying, but the parents still had no way to know what the owner would do if they left. what I'm suggesting is the owners make any release policy they want and THEN the parents can decide if this is where they want to be. Then if the parent decides to leave they know exactly if they will be given a release or not. Takes all the guess work out

 

[debbie]

No they won't. I know people hear in Illinois at a BIG NAME brand gym and the one that FamousMom is referring to that KNEW about major issues with the owners and coaches (of both gyms) and KNEW the rule of November 1st. But still they CHOSE to stay, hoping for something or a miracle, I guess. Now the crap has hit the fan and we cry foul. I agree that I would like to see additions to the rule to give more protection to parents. Not for the reasons brought in the two threads (personally they're more emotional than logical / but I understand). But to prevent owner/coaches from replacing kids with alternates without real justification after November 1st when the kid can't leave without a release.

Just to be clear. I'm not saying you or FamousMom fit in the category of "KNEW".

I also wanted to say that if right now I decide to take my level 5 kid to another gym I have no idea if the owner will give me a release or not. if when the season started the gym had a policy in place that I signed I would know if I'd be granted a release or not.

 

[BlueCat]

Compromise:

If you are a parent/athlete that would like the ability to change Worlds teams mid-season when you decide your personal interests would best be served elsewhere, then download a waiver form. Before tryouts each season, take said form to the owner of the gym where you are trying out. Tell the owner that unless they sign this "get-out-of-worlds-commitment-free" card for you ahead of time, then you are taking your business elsewhere.