All-Star S/o Release Discussion Re: Worlds Athletes

[King]

Because he\she always has kids knocking on the door asking to be part of their gym.

But that doesn't answer why a good gym owner wants this rule to go away. Kids knocking on the door doesn't seem to matter to the rule?

 

[King]

1. My original answer was valid reasons TO BE released, not valid reasons to DENY release, and I think geographical move, be it across town or across country can be simply rectified (in the waiver scenario) by providing a copy of a utility bill from the new address, in a parent/guardian's name, if it actually came down to that.
2. Ok.
3. The question was, if the same rules should apply, IF the rule was enacted at all levels, so even if most gym-hopping occurs at the top, why do you think the same rules shouldn't apply?

Bluecat answered why it was created. I don't think it was ever really a large problem outside of worlds athletes.

 

[King]

So the gym owners would be required to have proof, but athletes could get a release based on a rumor? I'm certainly not suggesting that athletes should stay in a situation they don't think is safe. However, parents could simply make something up to get a guaranteed release. (I know most parents wouldn't do this - any more than most gym owners wouldn't deny a release for non-financial reasons.)

I think that the general feeling among many gym owners was that this rule addressed two main problems that face many gyms:

1. Athletes leaving without paying their bill, and gyms having no real threat to keep them from going somewhere else and starting with a zero balance.
2. Athletes (particularly high-level ones) being recruited away during a season.

The thing is 98% of the athletes in this sport are not Worlds eligible athletes... and does not affect them. Yet most (not all though) of the gym hopping and money issues happened at Worlds level teams. And in the end it ONLY affects one competition. I don't see this rule changing or going away.

 

[debbie]

My counterpoint is that because these are only level 5 athletes and only affects senior age worlds eligible ones how many athletes do you think enter for the first time into cheerleading on a Worlds team and discover a gym they have never been to before are not what they thought?

if its 1 its too many

 

[King]

if its 1 its too many

your complaint is noted. but until you provide an argument outside of 'because its wrong' or 'because a good gym shouldn't like it' that is all your complaint will be... noted. and we will move on.

 

[Mamarazzi]

So the gym owners would be required to have proof, but athletes could get a release based on a rumor? I'm certainly not suggesting that athletes should stay in a situation they don't think is safe. However, parents could simply make something up to get a guaranteed release. (I know most parents wouldn't do this - any more than most gym owners wouldn't deny a release for non-financial reasons.)

I think that the general feeling among many gym owners was that this rule addressed two main problems that face many gyms:

1. Athletes leaving without paying their bill, and gyms having no real threat to keep them from going somewhere else and starting with a zero balance.
2. Athletes (particularly high-level ones) being recruited away during a season.

Thanks for the clarification of the reasoning behind the rule - but just as a parent could "make up" that their child is being exposed to something improper, what prevents a gym from from claiming that another gym "recruited" rather than a family simply making a choice to move that's in their best interest?

 

[Cheer Cougar]

You should be able to tell if you are with a "lousy gym owner" way before November 1st....

What if lousy gym owner decided to regroup teams and stack one team with best level 5 athletes after Nov 1st? Leaving other level 5 athletes on teams with no decent coach, choreography, or chance to now go to worlds? Basically bad bill of goods! And now they are stuck and can't leave without a release?

 

[shadow]

Assume every single ruling will be appealed (why WOULDNT a family try and appeal it?). Who pays for all the appealing? The organization itself is not well funded.

The loser pays

 

[King]

What if lousy gym owner decided to regroup teams and stack one team with best level 5 athletes after Nov 1st? Leaving other level 5 athletes on teams with no decent coach, choreography, or chance to now go to worlds? Basically bad bill of goods! And now they are stuck and can't leave without a release?

let's say that happens.... you think that gym will be in business next year?

 

[King]

The loser pays

how much should it cost?

 

[Cheer Cougar]

let's say that happens.... you think that gym will be in business next year?

Did happen! And guess we'll see! In the meantime, bunch of kids lost and confused trying to get releases to go to teams which are worlds bound. Or hope that this season doesn't suck too badly for the ones who stay.

 

[ACEDAD]

While this rule probably needs a tweak or two, everyone please remember that 2006-08, there were a number of vagabond level 5 cheerleaders leaving gyms that had competed at their last worlds bid and would travel from gym to gym.

It was unbelievable and unsustainable. This rule brought some reason back. It's not perfect, but it's better.

 

[King]

Did happen! And guess we'll see! In the meantime, bunch of kids lost and confused trying to get releases to go to teams which are worlds bound. Or hope that this season doesn't suck too badly for the ones who stay.

my guess is what athlete would want to go back to that gym knowing the management would consider doing something like that?

 

[Justacoach]

Playing devils advocate-

My kid is unhappy as Worlds approaches and we jump ship. We move gyms and compete with Gym B. Turn in a "signed release" that is forged. Would it just be Gym A's word against ours? Who would win in this case? We make the argument that they signed it and are now regretting signing it and they say they never signed it.

Would never happen as I don't ever see either of my kids at that level but...

 

[shadow]

how much should it cost?

Enough to deter frivolous claims. I truly feel the USASF is staffed with intelligent thoughtful people who have a history of setting rules that benefit the entire industry (whether people like it or not). This just seems not thought though, a patch for a problem they couldn't figure out. Just about every youth sport has figured out a way of adapting a similar rule. People end up unhappy when they don't get what theyn want but having your voice heard is an important part of the process in this country.