All-Star S/o Release Discussion Re: Worlds Athletes

[King]

Playing devils advocate-

My kid is unhappy as Worlds approaches and we jump ship. We move gyms and compete with Gym B. Turn in a "signed release" that is forged. Would it just be Gym A's word against ours? Who would win in this case? We make the argument that they signed it and are now regretting signing it and they say they never signed it.

Would never happen as I don't ever see either of my kids at that level but...

It should probably be turned in. I signed one (well had one signed) for an athlete that left us. I always wondered if she competed or what she did with it.

 

[shadow]

Playing devils advocate-

My kid is unhappy as Worlds approaches and we jump ship. We move gyms and compete with Gym B. Turn in a "signed release" that is forged. Would it just be Gym A's word against ours? Who would win in this case? We make the argument that they signed it and are now regretting signing it and they say they never signed it.

Would never happen as I don't ever see either of my kids at that level but...

I went through the process of getting a release last year, everyone will know if you get it or don't get it. People get really upset when they feel people are being wronged. You will not get away with it.

 

[Cheer Cougar]

my guess is what athlete would want to go back to that gym knowing the management would consider doing something like that?

For sure! But the problem is, there no release option or appeal for kids being screwed by this gym owner currently. And no one saw it coming until after Nov 1st.

 

[garretttt]

This rule kind of reminds me of a rule that is in my county for schools.

It says that if you switch from the school you are zoned in to another school that you cannot participate in varsity sports. Howevwr if you move then the rule doesnt apply. I think that it should be this way. If you move far enough to where you cannot commute to the gym the rule shouldnt apply.

 

[cheerheart4life]

This rule kind of reminds me of a rule that is in my county for schools.

It says that if you switch from the school you are zoned in to another school that you cannot participate in varsity sports. Howevwr if you move then the rule doesnt apply. I think that it should be this way. If you move far enough to where you cannot commute to the gym the rule shouldnt apply.

How far is too far though? I know a lot of athletes commute over 3 hours to go to practice!!

 

[ztaprincess]

So the gym owners would be required to have proof, but athletes could get a release based on a rumor? I'm certainly not suggesting that athletes should stay in a situation they don't think is safe. However, parents could simply make something up to get a guaranteed release. (I know most parents wouldn't do this - any more than most gym owners wouldn't deny a release for non-financial reasons.)

No I think that if an appeal is made that proof needs to come from those appealing as well. Probably should have added that to my post. If you cannot prove anything then the appeal would be pointless. It does though add to how tricky it would be to implement an appeal process and make sure there are as little loopholes as possible.

While this rule probably needs a tweak or two, everyone please remember that 2006-08, there were a number of vagabond level 5 cheerleaders leaving gyms that had competed at their last worlds bid and would travel from gym to gym.

It was unbelievable and unsustainable. This rule brought some reason back. It's not perfect, but it's better.

I agree that it is better then nothing. It is a start to something that will help the sport instead of hurt it.

 

[garretttt]

How far is too far though? I know a lot of athletes commute over 3 hours to go to practice!!

It should depend on how far they are already commuting.

 

[BlueCat]

Enough to deter frivolous claims. I truly feel the USASF is staffed with intelligent thoughtful people who have a history of setting rules that benefit the entire industry (whether people like it or not). This just seems not thought though, a patch for a problem they couldn't figure out. Just about every youth sport has figured out a way of adapting a similar rule. People end up unhappy when they don't get what theyn want but having your voice heard is an important part of the process in this country.

Out of curiousity, what (if any) restrictions would you put on athletes leaving their teams and joining another?

 

[REA Dad]

Let's say I am a gym owner. Why should I want this rule repealed?

Why would parents want it to stay? It gives the owners, both good and bad, to much power over our children with no course of action even if an owner is criminally or legally wrong.

Sometimes gym owners, coaches, EP's and even the USASF need to realize that parents fund 100% of this sport/industry. If there are not clear cut reasons to guarantee a release in the rules then the rules should not be in place. With that said I do support the basics of this rule because as a parent I believe it is important to teach our kids the value of working through adversity even when you aren't happy.

 

[King]

Why would parents want it to stay? It gives the owners, both good and bad, to much power over our children with no course of action even if an owner is criminally or legally wrong.

Sometimes gym owners, coaches, EP's and even the USASF need to realize that parents fund 100% of this sport/industry. If there are not clear cut reasons to guarantee a release in the rules then the rules should not be in place. With that said I do support the basics of this rule because as a parent I believe it is important to teach our kids the value of working through adversity even when you aren't happy.

How does it give the gym owners power if it only affects the top 1% of kids?

 

[Mamarazzi]

How does it give the gym owners power if it only affects the top 1% of kids?

Maybe you could enlighten us on that, because apparently that Top 1% was important enough to the industry for an entire waiver system to be developed to protect the gym owners.
Further, if what ACEDAD refers to is correct, it actually only has to do with a group of vagabond Level 5s, meaning a fraction of that top 1%.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Out of curiousity, what (if any) restrictions would you put on athletes leaving their teams and joining another?

Personally the only restriction I would put on them is that their bill is paid in full and I would be willing to negotiate it to a fair settlement. Once there is a zero balance, then I would have no problems letting them go wherever they want to go. I wouldn't want an unhappy athlete/family but I would want to be paid for all services rendered or extended to them till that point of time based on their word that they were going to be a part of the program for that season. Over the years I have seen too many athletes whose families claimed
financial hardship as the reason they were behind in paying and begging not to be kicked off the team at all levels jump ship owing balances and walk into a new gym. Or they could not pay their bill but always had the latest style shoes, boots, purses, phones gadgets and some even bought more expensive cars. It showed that paying their bill was not a priority for them.

Since it is more than Level 5 athletes I am talking about, I don't believe they were given a free ride for uniforms, t shirts, competition fees, hotel rooms, etc, even if they did get a free ride on tuition when they switched.

 

[tumbleyoda]

This rule kind of reminds me of a rule that is in my county for schools.

It says that if you switch from the school you are zoned in to another school that you cannot participate in varsity sports. Howevwr if you move then the rule doesnt apply. I think that it should be this way. If you move far enough to where you cannot commute to the gym the rule shouldnt apply.

The problem would then be for those who would be willing and able to commute, no matter where they lived to their gym of choice, but somehow couldn't make it to the gym they were leaving. I actually like the idea of this but can see ways that it too would be exploited.

Maybe you could enlighten us on that, because apparently that Top 1% was important enough to the industry for an entire waiver system to be developed to protect the gym owners.
Further, if what ACEDAD refers to is correct, it actually only has to do with a group of vagabond Level 5s, meaning a fraction of that top 1%.

The top 1% is so important that Varsity/USASF has fought to protect that market from being able to compete anywhere else as a season ending "Worlds" type championship. The majority of the threads in All Star forum on this board are devoted to in some way or the other a portion of that top 1%. The majority of the drama we read and hear about comes from that top 1%. And the majority of the promotion and marketing of the sport comes in relation to promoting that 1%. It may be a very small percentage but it is vitally important to the industry as a whole.

 

[kristenthegreat]

1. Valid Reasons: Abuse, Gym Disbanding, Inappropriate Behavior (drinking/drugs), Negligence, and Long-Distance Move. That last one isn't as quantifiable, but it could work. Like I said before, the first couple are enough to get you in trouble with the police, never mind guaranteeing a release!! That being said, I do get nervous about granting releases for anyone. There's a reason Charles Manson is in prison instead of just dead in a ditch- by protecting the rights of EVERYONE, even the rights of those we despise, we keep our rights safe and secure. Evil, but so is ruining a coach/gym/program with allegations of misconduct because Susie and her Mom want to go to 'X' gym and can't without a release.

The financial thing is tricky, and I believe something would need to be worked out. On the subject of guaranteeing a forgery, what if there was a form for the athlete seeking the release, and a form for the gym guaranteeing the release (I don't know how it is now- is it one form for both signatures or two different forms?). Both parties sign each one (with the gym owner designating 'Yes' or 'No' and reasons MUST be included for 'No' on the Gym Owners form and reasons for why the release SHOULD be granted will be written on the athlete's. Both forms are mailed individually to the set address. If a release form is mailed by an athlete, but no response is given for at least ONE month by the gym owner, then the athlete is automatically terminated. Forms can also be emailed in order to expedite the process. There could be some automatic email/phone call notification system in place using the athletes membership numbers which are tied to their current gym. That way, the owner can't claim they weren't notified, or if an athlete refuses to notify the gym, there's a system in place to track that. Might take a little setup or tweaking, but it would at least cover that aspect.

 

[REA Dad]

How does it give the gym owners power if it only affects the top 1% of kids?

Doesn't matter if it's 1%, 1 person or 1 billion. Imagine if the USASF had a rule that said if a level 5 cheerleader decided to leave their team (after competing with them) that team could not compete at Worlds and unless the cheerleader signed a waiver allowing that team to compete.

Right now if a coach/owner assaults a cheerleader and that cheerleader files charges and leaves the gym they have to leave the decision of them competing in the cheer worlds equivalent of the Super Bowl to the person who assaulted them. That isn't power over someone??