All-Star Should Level 6 Exist?

[King]

1. Not my concern.
2. Understood, but proper equipment and training is rare as we've agreed.
3. There are maybe 10 gyms that can adequately enforce this and make it happen. They could probably pull off a level 7 team, too, but that's not the point.
4. Maybe Open 4 would change this. I don't know. Not a huge fan of more divisions, but this one might make sense.

1. Should always care as what they do affects what we do.
2. If you are going to have a level 6 you should be required to have the proper equipment.
3. And that is why the same gyms place in the top repeatedly for open. And when they don't be that strict for open teams and allow skipping and silliness you see them not be in the top anymore.
4. This division wouldn't leach anything from the current divisions. But IOC 5 should now become 17+ as well.

 

[youbetterwork]

I'm on level 6 in Sweden, it's the only option since we don't have any senior 5. I like level 6, but I would not be that sad if it was taken away... Not many US level 6 teams go to Worlds (or exist?), so... But it would be quite sad if level 6 was taken away from allstar but not ICU, the Swedish Cheerleading Federation would probably have a hard time choosing what's more important, ICU or allstar... And I'm guessing it would be ICU. In Sweden all the kids LOVE allstar cheerleading and many people are very "up to date" with the allstar world and very interested in it. If we wouldn't able to compete at allstar Worlds it would probably be more focus on ICU and the more college type of cheerleading... And we would might lose some of our connection to allstar. And I'm afraid that would happen to more "level 6-countries" (Norway, Finland, Thailand etc). I'm rambling... But that's my biggest concern, since I love the allstar world. It's more like a community than other types of cheerleading.

-

Do you have to have kick doubles to score high in level 5? I would like to see more variation in basket tosses in level 5... So if level 6 would go away, I wish more basket tosses (some flips) would be allowed in level 5.

 

[King]

I'm on level 6 in Sweden, it's the only option since we don't have any senior 5. I like level 6, but I would not be that sad if it was taken away... Not many US level 6 teams go to Worlds (or exist?), so... But it would be quite sad if level 6 was taken away from allstar but not ICU, the Swedish Cheerleading Federation would probably have a hard time choosing what's more important, ICU or allstar... And I'm guessing it would be ICU. In Sweden all the kids LOVE allstar cheerleading and many people are very "up to date" with the allstar world and very interested in it. If we wouldn't able to compete at allstar Worlds it would probably be more focus on ICU and the more college type of cheerleading... And we would might lose some of our connection to allstar. And I'm afraid that would happen to more "level 6-countries" (Norway, Finland, Thailand etc). I'm rambling... But that's my biggest concern, since I love the allstar world. It's more like a community than other types of cheerleading.

-

Do you have to have kick doubles to score high in level 5? I would like to see more variation in basket tosses in level 5... So if level 6 would go away, I wish more basket tosses (some flips) would be allowed in level 5.

The three basic things that level 6 allows are: non braced flipping into and out of stunts - flipping baskets - 2 1/2 high pyramids and non braced flipping into and out of them.

 

[youbetterwork]

Level 6 stunts are not any harder than what is currently allowed (which is basically a rewind and flip downs).

It's the flipping baskets and 2 1/2 pyramids that concern me. A back tuck basket is easy, but flipping and twisting takes a good deal of height that I think most high school bases cannot produce quite yet. The 2 1/2 pyramid parts that concern me is the catching of flyers when they crumble.

I think a lot of level 5 teams would be able to do basket tosses with flips and twisting. At least fulls. Most level 5 athletes in the US are used to flip and twist in tumbling, so they're familiar with it. In my team all the flyers are not, and yes then they need good height. But those flyers who can do full in tumbling don't need that much height actually. From my experience.

We have many 17 and 18 year olds on my team that are bases/backspots.

 

[King]

I think a lot of level 5 teams would be able to do basket tosses with flips and twisting. At least fulls. Most level 5 athletes in the US are used to flip and twist in tumbling, so they're familiar with it. In my team all the flyers are not, and yes then they need good height. But those flyers who can do full in tumbling don't need that much height actually. From my experience.

We have many 17 and 18 year olds on my team that are bases/backspots.

I think many level 5 teams could easily do rewinds and flips from stunts. Flipping and twisting baskets I disagree with. A lot of the top programs can do them, but a flipping basket is significantly more difficult with spinning with a lot more dire consequences if they don't complete the flip. In a non flipping kick double an expected 'worst' case scenario is an incomplete twist.

 

[youbetterwork]

The three basic things that level 6 allows are: non braced flipping into and out of stunts - flipping baskets - 2 1/2 high pyramids and non braced flipping into and out of them.

Yes I know. But if level 6 was taken away, I wish it would be allowed to do some flips in baskets in IO5/IOC5.

 

[King]

Yes I know. But if level 6 was taken away, I wish it would be allowed to do some flips in baskets in IO5/IOC5.

I am not sure Level 6 should be taken away. But I think if you are going to have it you have to pass some certifications a bit stricter than all the other divisions.

 

[youbetterwork]

I am not sure Level 6 should be taken away. But I think if you are going to have it you have to pass some certifications a bit stricter than all the other divisions.

I agree.

 

[ztaprincess]

I don't know if this has ever really been talked about but since it was mentioned by @youtbetterwork is there a reason that level 6 teams are basically the only option for teams there? Why aren't there more level 5 teams? I would think it would be safer and easier to have more level 5 teams then level 6.

 

[AScheer]

What if level 6 exists, but is changed drastically? Take out level 5 restricted and make that regular level 5. Then change level 6 to be like level 5 is now, with the addition of rewinds, and simple one flip baskets - no flipping and twisting. I personally don't find 2.5 high pyramids scary, but I've had a lot of experience with them. Maybe allow simple ones (2-2-1's with a basic toss up or maybe a full up, but no tuck ups etc)

 

[GreatWhite92]

I think many level 5 teams could easily do rewinds and flips from stunts. Flipping and twisting baskets I disagree with. A lot of the top programs can do them, but a flipping basket is significantly more difficult with spinning with a lot more dire consequences if they don't complete the flip. In a non flipping kick double an expected 'worst' case scenario is an incomplete twist.

Full baskets - absolutely not for senior level 5! But backtuck baskets only, I think would be atleast doable...I have a video from 2005 of my team doing a lvl 6 pyramid in junior and another team doing back tuck baskets in junior and they were not that scary looking and that was junior age girls. But basket that twist also or even layed out flips I would say no! But I simple back tuck is not as bad. Now our junior level 6 pyramid I would not suggest for level 5. It wasn't scary but I could see how it could be scary for most.

 

[carrot]

Why aren't there more level 5 teams? I would think it would be safer and easier to have more level 5 teams then level 6.

I think it has to do with that we don't have the level system. If you want to to anything harder than back handsprings and extensions you'll be in "advanced", which is like level 6 for seniors (for juniors advanced is almost exactly like level 5). You can't compete at level 5 at all as a senior in Sweden. Well, you could, but you wouldn't score very good in pyramids and baskets.. I guess that's why. The level system just wouldn't work since Sweden is so small and cheer is not as popular as other sports. Even now with three different difficulty levels there are very few teams in some divisions.

But i have no idea why they have decided to make the hardest available level like level 6 instead of 5 in the first place.

 

[cheermommaRN]

I don't think it should be taken away. For me it is partly for selfish reasons....I love watching the death defying baskets and pyramids. I really love the idea of Open 4, for two reasons. 1. It gives kids that have aged out but not become level 5 a place to cheer for a couple more seasons if they chose to. 2. Kids that have had their career cut short but injuries may be able to continue competing if they are not required to throw twisting skills. Cp has a friend who's older sister cheered for Spirit for years until she suffered two major knee injuries, she would sign up for Open 4 in a heartbeat.
One option is for gyms to start broadening where they look for coaches. If you chose to have a level 6 team, you need to have an acro gymnastics coach on staff that trains the twisting baskets. WOGA has youth age kids throwing those skills, but they are trained well to minimize the chance of injury.
All Star and USA Gymnastics are on a collision course towards each other.

 

[cheermommaRN]

I took to long to find it and edit my last post but here is a video that shows the belt systems they use for training the twisting skills in acro...oh and 3:08 kills me every time....

 

[armycheermom]

I have a question. Could we get more qualified coaches for level 6, if world bids were given at college nationals?