All-Star Starting A Discussion: The Safety Of Spring Floor Vs... Well.. Anything Else

[King]

I dont understand what youre saying, a full isnt stopping progression on a hard floor.

Sure it is, you can't double. At some point the progressions have to have an end point. Where did you come up with the idea a full is the 'max' safest/risk skill you can do on a hard floor?

 

[SarahS]

Not for the hundreds of teams that have many fulls that are perfectly executed. How can you tell them they can no longer perform fulls because DIFFERENT teams are getting injured trying to do them. That doesnt seem fair to me.

Also, the same can be said to allstar. Ive seen many many routines with poorly executed fulls that resulted in injury. We dont we stop at layouts there as well? They can also be "creative and dynamic and have fun, impressive (and safer) routines without fulls"... right?

It probably didn't seem fair to the junior-aged teams who were performing "perfectly executed" flipping baskets several years ago when those skills were completely outlawed... but I think few would argue now that those rules make sense and are prudent. It would involve a change in the culture for some teams, sure, but I am fairly certain that any negatives would be vastly outweighed by positives in safety.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

The sport can start by creating the rules for safety at all levels in the first place. There is nowhere near the same level of safety emphasized at school or rec level competition and there are not any rules for sideline cheer. AACCA safety certification for coaches is encourage but not required everywhere and definitely not enforced.

Is AACCA sufficient enough for school cheer safety? No disrespect but they give you the answers to the test. I know many AACCA certified coaches AND UCA instructors who do not know proper progression. Please don't forget that AACCA is a Varsity Brands company and Jim Lord is an old time UCA instructor. If you fail the test, pass the test or don't take it, nobody cares or even knows for that matter. I've even had an professional witness for gymnastics lawsuit cases say that AACCA does more damage than good for coaches' defense. Are we accepting AACCA as the standard for school safety because we think that everyone else accepts then as the standard? Don't get me wrong, I think they have some good rules, but I think that some of their rules are written to benefit Varsity as well. So how did they get their power?

 

[munchkinmom]

If someone is dumb enough is try that, they should go for it. If a coach is dumb enough to allow that, go for it. If a parent will be ignorant enough to allow their child to do that, go for it. Its all about risk. If youre willing to be risky, you have to pay the price.

Should we ban skydiving because its dangerous? No, people know what theyre getting themselves into. Same thing as smoking, it says on the pack how dangerous it is, but people still do it and suffer the consequences of the risk involved.

Everyone knows the dangers of trying a double full or back on a hard gym floor, if you wanna do it, you gotta be prepared to pay the price if something goes wrong.

Skydiving has nationally recognized training programs that are a standard requirement for individual jumps, they have same-day training for those jumping with coaches (tandem or otherwise). It also has nationally recognized training programs for those coaches with prerequisites that the coaches have 100 jumps and a license class beyond that of a basic individual jumper. I know nothing about skydiving. It took me 10 minutes to learn that's what I should look for if my 16 year old tells me they want to go skydiving and I get any sort of inclination to agree. Minors are "banned" from smoking. The government pours money into programs informing them of the risks of smoking.

I can't say the same thing for cheerleading that I can either of these two issues, so everyone likely does not know the risks. If they can't find rules/guidelines easily to say otherwise, and they have no reason not to trust the coach as a professional (the high school "hired" them after all...). Most of what I've learned has been through forums and medical journals. The first is not where you should have to be learning about safety, and the second should not be expected reading for parents.

Personally, in a few years from now if the high school coach who had so far been competent teaching tumbling wants to teach my kid to do ___ skill in the routine they practice at time rented from a local all-star or gymnastics gym on a spring floor so they can use those skills competing on a spring floor - like most competitions around here have, not at games, and the skill is one that is allowed in all-star level 4 or 5 and is in correct progression for my kid, I'd like them to be allowed to do it in competition.

I think the biggest problem for the groups outside of all-star right now is the lack of cohesiveness and education (for all involved).

 

[King]

Until the overall education of high school coaches is raised... until nationwide spring floor can cover the earth...

I think high school cheerleading should be limited to level 3 on hard floor.

 

[ctgatormom]

Until the overall education of high school coaches is raised... until nationwide spring floor can cover the earth...

I think high school cheerleading should be limited to level 3 on hard floor.

Amen!!! I wish I could shimmy this more than once.......

 

[munchkinmom]

Until the overall education of high school coaches is raised... until nationwide spring floor can cover the earth...

I think high school cheerleading should be limited to level 3 on hard floor.

Hard floor, I agree. Do I just live in an odd area? Is it nationwide the number of level 3/4ish rec/school teams around the country that do at least one of their practices a week on spring and compete on spring every time is overall so miniscule that making any separation for them to continue to compete and grow does not make sense? Or is it trying to create a separation that is an issue? Not that even a majority around here are at that level, but there are a good number of teams and they seem to be increasing. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect to see regional/national competition companies cater to something that doesn't occur everywhere.

 

[King]

And as business goes it makes sense to limit school to level 3. That way all-star gyms will be sought out more to compete the higher level skills. Everyone is safer and cheerleading grows.

 

[munchkinmom]

Almost a full quarter of the students served by the town's 2 high school feeder systems are free & reduced meals. There are at least 8 all-star programs within a half hour drive, but there's still 4 rec programs within the town that have exploding growth. There's teams doing payment plans on a $200 season fee. We've got kids dropping out of gymnastics classes to cheerleading because they couldn't afford gymnastics. I can't imagine telling parents who have 10yo's doing tucks that it's going to be $6000 a year to an all-star program for their kid to move on in a couple years.

As I said I don't know if this is an exception or not. If it's not, then you'd be creating demand for competition circuits that allow schools to go beyond level 3. Would cheerleading grow, or would it splinter? That or is there the possiblity of those programs creating quasi-"all-star" teams and just continuing to do everything pretty much in the same way as before? If that happens, are we any better than where we started?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but reactions to changes should be explored to see if the desired outcome would be met.

 

[laughAlittle]

And as business goes it makes sense to limit school to level 3. That way all-star gyms will be sought out more to compete the higher level skills. Everyone is safer and cheerleading grows.

why not limit allstar to level 3 as well? theres many risks tumbling on a spring floor as well.

 

[King]

why not limit allstar to level 3 as well? theres many risks tumbling on a spring floor as well.

are you avoiding my question by asking another question? what lead you to the educated decision that fulls on hard floor at high schools were the correct limit? (we are focussing on fulls but I would do the same thing with all skills)

 

[laughAlittle]

are you avoiding my question by asking another question? what lead you to the educated decision that fulls on hard floor at high schools were the correct limit? (we are focussing on fulls but I would do the same thing with all skills)

there should be no limit anywhere, I dont get where you think I said that.

 

[King]

there should be no limit anywhere, I dont get where you think I said that.

Then I completely overestimated your opinion. thats just plain dumb.

 

[laughAlittle]

Then I completely overestimated your opinion. thats just plain dumb.

thats your opinion & I have mine.

 

[yojaehs]

why not limit allstar to level 3 as well? theres many risks tumbling on a spring floor as well.

The risk of spring floor 4+ on a spring floor is far less than those skills on hard floor.