All-Star Starting A Discussion: The Safety Of Spring Floor Vs... Well.. Anything Else

[King]

Stemming off a topic in the High School forum I thought I would discuss this in Allstar and get a feel for what other people think.

I start all good discussions with a question:

Is there any surface that is really safe besides spring floor? And, if so, please explain why. (or if you agree please throw that in as well).

 

[Justacoach]

Safe to stunt on? Normal high school cheer floor.

Safe to tumble on? It depends on the athlete and the skill. The strong level 5 tumblers can throw a full easily on bball court or track. But even the strongest tumblers complain of hand and wrist pain after a long football game with lots of backhandsprings. I think most kids would agree tucks are easier on hard surfaces because that wrist pain isn't there. Weak level 2 tumblers have difficulty with ro bhs. Tumbling on non-spring floor has different timing and technique also because the punch isn't there.

 

[WorkToWin]

random fact: i have a full on blue floor and won't even throw a tuck at my high school games.
anyways, as far as anatomy and technical safety, I am not sure about injuries. All I know is when I do a back handspring on the track it jolts my hands and radiates through my shoulders and even give me headaches.

 

[King]

Safe to stunt on? Normal high school cheer floor.

Safe to tumble on? It depends on the athlete and the skill. The strong level 5 tumblers can throw a full easily on bball court or track. But even the strongest tumblers complain of hand and wrist pain after a long football game with lots of backhandsprings. I think most kids would agree tucks are easier on hard surfaces because that wrist pain isn't there. Weak level 2 tumblers have difficulty with ro bhs. Tumbling on non-spring floor has different timing and technique also because the punch isn't there.

Curious, why is it safe to stunt on?

 

[King]

random fact: i have a full on blue floor and won't even throw a tuck at my high school games.
anyways, as far as anatomy and technical safety, I am not sure about injuries. All I know is when I do a back handspring on the track it jolts my hands and radiates through my shoulders and even give me headaches.

Eventually I want to talk about the physics and mechanics of why it hurts... but were not there yet.

 

[King]

Safe to stunt on? Normal high school cheer floor.

Safe to tumble on? It depends on the athlete and the skill. The strong level 5 tumblers can throw a full easily on bball court or track. But even the strongest tumblers complain of hand and wrist pain after a long football game with lots of backhandsprings. I think most kids would agree tucks are easier on hard surfaces because that wrist pain isn't there. Weak level 2 tumblers have difficulty with ro bhs. Tumbling on non-spring floor has different timing and technique also because the punch isn't there.

Actually, let me ask that in a different way. Everything is safe to stunt on. I have stunted on hard floor, cement, grass, wood floor, in living rooms, at Wal-mart, on a highway (fun story), at a football game in the stands, at rock concerts, in the airport. Actually stunting and hitting your stunt it doesn't matter where you go. It's all safe.

What about if your stunt doesn't hit? If your flyer falls from the top? Is hard floor safe to fall on from the top of a stunt or basket?

 

[Justacoach]

Spring floor isn't safe to fall on from the top of a stunt or basket. Only a pit mat or something like that would be "safe" to take a hard fall on.

 

[King]

Spring floor isn't safe to fall on from the top of a stunt or basket. Only a pit mat or something like that would be "safe" to take a hard fall on.

So there is no difference when falling from a basket or a stunt onto a hard floor or a spring floor? It is all the exact same?

 

[WorkToWin]

Spring floor isn't safe to fall on from the top of a stunt or basket. Only a pit mat or something like that would be "safe" to take a hard fall on.

i don't think even a pit would be safe to fall from high up on actually. if you fell the wrong way you could still by severely injured.

 

[Justacoach]

So there is no difference when falling from a basket or a stunt onto a hard floor or a spring floor? It is all the exact same?

Spring floor is definitely safER lol. But by no means safe. I think the biggest obstacle to safety in our industry is not the surface the kids cheer on but the coaches who have no idea what they are doing. I mean the high school coach who has their team throwing baskets to a seperate group. Or the tumbling coach who tells a kid to throw their full on the floor when they are barely landing it on tumble trak. Coaches need to be better trained on not only the rules and safety guidelines, but how to actually teach proper progression and be able to recognize when a kid is ready to move on. That level 3 stunt group that can't hit an extension shouldn't be doing one leg stunts. The flyer that can't full down with a tight hollow body isn't ready to double etc.

 

[MissBee]

Spring floor is definitely safER lol. But by no means safe. I think the biggest obstacle to safety in our industry is not the surface the kids cheer on but the coaches who have no idea what they are doing. I mean the high school coach who has their team throwing baskets to a seperate group. Or the tumbling coach who tells a kid to throw their full on the floor when they are barely landing it on tumble trak. Coaches need to be better trained on not only the rules and safety guidelines, but how to actually teach proper progression and be able to recognize when a kid is ready to move on. That level 3 stunt group that can't hit an extension shouldn't be doing one leg stunts. The flyer that can't full down with a tight hollow body isn't ready to double etc.

I wish I could shimmy this a million times!

 

[MissBee]

I was working for one of the major floor manufacturers when cheer switched over to spring floors in 2003-2004. I handled all of the cheer accounts, and when I was first approached by a major event producer I set my foot down and said, "No." My experience as a gymnast and a gymnastics coach told me that a spring floor was designed for one person at a time, not 30. We went through months of testing different placements of coil springs and foam blocks to be sure that we had a design that was safe and would withstand the demands of a cheer team. We had to make sure that when there was tumbling and stunts going on at the same time, that the tumbling wasn't double bouncing the stunts, causing them to be unsteady. We had to make sure that multiple tumblers, at different points in their passes (cross tumbling) wouldn't cause double bounces that would throw each other off. We set up entire floors and had people stunting, tumbling, jumping and dancing all at once on them. It took about 6 months to finally decide on a design that was appropriate for cheerleading....it was not just "let's put a gymnastics spring floor in a cheer competition". After all of that, we then had to figure out what would perform best on an elevated stage.

When you're talking about safety....yes, a spring floor is the safest performance surface out there. The 4" height of the foam blocks and/or coil springs creates a void between you and the subfloor. They also absorb a good amount of the impact of a landing. A carpet foam only floor (use in HS) will not do this. The spring floor will also help reduce overuse injuries in athletes, in addition to allowing them greater airtime to complete skills.

 

[ShutItDown]

i hate college and regular floors. i finally have good tumbling skills and im limited to college cheer. i have terrible knees from other sports so the regular floor really kills me and its scary to through new skills on just a floor. at least spring floor it absorbs a little better.

 

[King]

Spring floor is definitely safER lol. But by no means safe. I think the biggest obstacle to safety in our industry is not the surface the kids cheer on but the coaches who have no idea what they are doing. I mean the high school coach who has their team throwing baskets to a seperate group. Or the tumbling coach who tells a kid to throw their full on the floor when they are barely landing it on tumble trak. Coaches need to be better trained on not only the rules and safety guidelines, but how to actually teach proper progression and be able to recognize when a kid is ready to move on. That level 3 stunt group that can't hit an extension shouldn't be doing one leg stunts. The flyer that can't full down with a tight hollow body isn't ready to double etc.

While you are 'right'ish your view is a bit misguided. I have seen someone break their leg while doing a skill into a pit. Does that mean a there is nothing safe enough to try a skill?

Or, all surfaces have a level of risk. What surface provides an acceptable level of risk?

We can't also limit our safety discussions to JUST coaching. At some point an athlete will flake out or not do their job. I have also seen amazing athletes hurt themselves on the simplest of skills (a roundoff when she was going to do a double full). At a certain point we need to look at all factors that go into what makes a certain surface safe.

Does spring floor provide a more acceptable level of risk over hard floor?

 

[King]

Spring floor is definitely safER lol. But by no means safe. I think the biggest obstacle to safety in our industry is not the surface the kids cheer on but the coaches who have no idea what they are doing. I mean the high school coach who has their team throwing baskets to a seperate group. Or the tumbling coach who tells a kid to throw their full on the floor when they are barely landing it on tumble trak. Coaches need to be better trained on not only the rules and safety guidelines, but how to actually teach proper progression and be able to recognize when a kid is ready to move on. That level 3 stunt group that can't hit an extension shouldn't be doing one leg stunts. The flyer that can't full down with a tight hollow body isn't ready to double etc.

Another point: If injuries were only the result of insufficient coaching then we would never see injuries at top level gyms. Have we ever seen an injury on the 'best' most representative team from each gym? Can you think of an injury that happened on Cheer Athletics, Cali, WC, CEA, SOT, Brandon, GT, Rays, or any top level gym from their top level team? I can think of plenty... and those teams represent the best in our industry. So either the best in our industry cannot hang... or we need to look at other possible causes.

I can tell your our injuries increase significantly because of high school cheerleading on hard floor. I cannot wait until high school season is over and the injuries stop.