All-Star Stunting On Concrete During Practice

[Just-a-Mom]

what @Ashley said. I hate it and I think it is dangerous, but there has not been a team that my kids have been on that has not stunted in the ready rooms at the convention centers, which with the exception of the lighting, is no different than being outside in the parking lot. I do wish USASF would take a stronger stand on this and add this to their list of rules.

It is in their rules. That's why I asked if they were a member.

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@Ashley I definitely wouldn't say "no one" has a problem with the stunting at Disney. I'd say no one at Worlds who is in charge of anything seems to have a problem with it. I've said it, and I've seen a thousand other people say it. I have no idea why the USASF allows that at their competition when it violates their rule.

As for the original post...I would absolutely have flipped my s**t on this chick. This is hands down the dumbest coaching technique I've read on here - ever. I would seriously question her as a coach if this is all she can come up with to figure out why the stunt isn't hitting. I'm not a coach, but I don't think CSP is sitting there in NC saying, "Hm...not sure why this stunt isn't hitting. Oh! I know! It's because they're not afraid enough. Let me make it so if they drop the flyer she could suffer life threatening injuries so they'll learn how to hit."

Coaching is about teaching how to safely do stunts and tumble. Kids wouldn't need coaches if we wanted them to just do dumb stuff until they got it right. The coach is there to protect them. She's an idiot and I wouldn't let her near my kids. (And ftr - no, all the teams don't do it. I don't know if she meant only her teams, but no gym I've ever been to uses this technique)

(Yep, I used CSP as an example. I may not be her biggest fan, but as far as stunting and technique, she's one of the best in the business)

I try to avoid stunting on anything other than mats but depending on the stunt and the circumstances I might be ok with it. Low level stunts, no inversions, no baskets, etc. are ok with proper supervision. BUT, a shoulder sit can be dangerous if the kids aren't able to execute it safely and properly so it really depends on the kids, the stunts and the circumstances.

But the circumstances here were "They can't hit this stunt." So, basically they aren't out "performing" somewhere - she's using it as a method to make them hit the stunt. It's a stunt they aren't hitting and are struggling with. So her logic is "Put them on concrete. Bet they'll hit it then."

ETA: (adding to your edit) - they weren't at a comp and limited by no mats. They were at their gym.

 

[cupieqt]

It is in their rules. That's why I asked if they were a member.

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Edited for space



But the circumstances here were "They can't hit this stunt." So, basically they aren't out "performing" somewhere - she's using it as a method to make them hit the stunt. It's a stunt they aren't hitting and are struggling with. So her logic is "Put them on concrete. Bet they'll hit it then."

ETA: (adding to your edit) - they weren't at a comp and limited by no mats. They were at their gym.

I haven't read this thread yet so I didn't see that. Off hand though I agree--that's a terrible reason to stunt on a hard surface!


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[BigBow]

I have stunted on concrete/grass/basketball courts, but the stunts we did were not our elite stunts that were in our routine. For parades we did preps, extensions, and no cradles (not saying that's completely safe either). For games we did simple stunts that got the crowd excited and kept them entertained. BUT - there were a few times that stupid stupid flukes happened and the stunts fell. Obviously we didn't want it to fall in front of tons of people (especially when we're not on a mat, too), but it happened. You really just never know. And as a coach, what really makes me mad about this whole thing is that they're not in a situation where they didn't have access to a mat but really needed to build those stunts a couple extra times. No, they had a perfectly good mat right inside and the coach just chose not to use it. Why would you risk it?? Ugh.

 

[alexacheer2010]

well when I cheered rec at 12 years old, our 15 year old coach (because real coach couldn't be there that day) made us stunt on blacktop. I fell completely on the ground to catch my flyer who was terrible anyway and fell with or without blacktop, and I slammed my head on the ground. Needless to say, I do not advocate stunting on concrete...


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[ssccxnce]

I understand both sides, I (sort of) understand the coaches logic as I have had coaches that put us in similar situations. The difference was however when we were practicing on concrete or grass one group would go up at a time while every other base group and coach stood relatively closely around the group stunting able to jump in incase anything went wrong, (and we never stunted outside in the dark which I find alarming).


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[cupieqt]

Were the stunts shaky? If so I'd be lighting somebody up. If they were skills the kids could do in their sleep, I'd have a milder but still angry reaction. There's absolutely no good reason to take that risk. Athlete safety is never something I gamble with.
When I cheered in college we stunted on concrete regularly. Every basketball game and in the student union for pep rallies, on the streets for parades and in parking lots for promotional events. There were no requirements for surfaces then (I know I'm showing my age here). I remember being very relieved when they implemented this rule the year after I was finished. (ETA: when it's just you and your partner and no spotter or soft grass around, a full up to lib was my tightrope over a pit of hungry gators).

Truth: I was majorly drawn to coaching all star cheer by the fact that they always practiced in gyms and competed on mats. As a school cheerleader we never had this "luxury".


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[NJ Coach]

I understand the theory, but I wouldn't send my kids into the parking lot to stunt. If they aren't pushing themselves in the gym, I'll find a way to get through.

 

[ArizonaMVP]

Is your gym a member of usasf?

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Definitely a member of the USASF. Pretty well known World's gym. Thanks for all the opinions. I will have the uncomfortable discussion at practice this weekend.

 

[BuegeSmalls]

I would never let a team stunt on concrete at practice. The only time stunting/tumbling on concrete is okay is in a parade or in front of the castle in Disney Or if your school has a concrete track for football games. I'd only do stunts that are guaranteed to hit.


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[Dixie]

It is in their rules. That's why I asked if they were a member.

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/I]

I'm shocked how little I know about the rules. I've watched my kid fly and base body positions and baskets on concrete surrounded by other teams doing the same thing. Daytime, nighttime, misting rain, cold, sun in their eyes...all circumstances. I didn't like it. She didn't like it. I'm appalled to think the coaches didn't know this was a rule. I'm glad to know its addresses in the rules.


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[Just-a-Mom]

I'm shocked how little I know about the rules. I've watched my kid fly and base body positions and baskets on concrete surrounded by other teams doing the same thing. Daytime, nighttime, misting rain, cold, sun in their eyes...all circumstances. I didn't like it. She didn't like it. I'm appalled to think the coaches didn't know this was a rule. I'm glad to know its addresses in the rules.


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I'd bet money the coaches know this is a rule. I think the lack of enforcement makes most coaches not particularly mindful of the USASF rules. Nothing happens to anyone for breaking these rules. Ever.

Literally...the only rules I've ever seen "enforced" are in judging type things (above level skills performed at comp etc.). Ages of athletes, number of kids on the mat, stunting on concrete, uniforms, inappropriate uniforms or routines or music? Nope. Just a bunch of rules that no one enforces because they're busy making more rules.

 

[juscheerthatisall]

I have had teams stunt on concrete in parades or at games but always very basic skills that we knew would hit without question. I would never PRACTICE skills on concrete that is definitely an accident waiting to happen. I can't say that I have never heard this before but I will say it is a very old school approach mostly implemented by coaches who cheered pre mats and saw the new systems as more of a hindrance then a help. When I was younger I can't remember a time a flyer hit the floor, we were taught "your flyer never hits the ground" so the surface really didn't make much difference to us. Now I see kids fall to the mat often, I think that the mentality of athletes is much different today and I wouldn't chance putting them in that type of danger.

 

[Hotcheerfan]

It is a terrible idea. Mats are much better and safer. I would voice some objections. Rather vigorously.

 

[Underestimated]

im not saying stunting on concrete is safe because its not... BUT what about grass, or turf like at the all star resort. everyone does it so that's okay? (im being devils advocate)

 

[cheermomforever]

No way should you let this go. We all know anything can happen during a practice. Someone can miss a foot, a flyer can get off balance, and for a coach to say that because they r outside that nothing will happen because the athletes work harder because they are not on mats? Really? Most injuries occur on something that is done often. In the dark too? That is never safe. This is the craziest tug I have ever heard of!


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