Super Seniors

[King]

This question was in the First Friday from the USASF. They wanted us to discuss... but didn't really say where or how. I figure this place is as good as any to talk about it.

Should Super Seniors stay in Allstars for another year, and why? Or do you think they should move away from Allstars and go start cheering college, and why?

I am going to rephrase the question a little differently. Are super seniors beneficial to the cheer industry and to the athletes themselves or do they hurt the industry and the athletes?

My personal opinion is allstar cheerleading is a way more mature place to compete than college. In allstar you get to compete multiple times a year with a way bigger community. College is once (maybe twice) and you might get to go to camp. While the age group for college is more mature, allstar just provides more 'cheerleading'.

For athletes I dont think there is a lot of advantage to go cheer in college immediately. The sport isnt as progressed and the scoring is crazy. Sure there are harder skills, but the competiton, infrastructure, and maturity of the sport is way behind. Educationally for an athlete this sucks because I think a lot of kids probably delay their education to keep cheering.

For the industry I think it makes little difference. If we got rid of super seniors people would complain for a year but the teams who are always competitive would always go and be competitive.

The real goal would be to foster a better competition setting for college cheerleading so more people would want to immediately go cheer in college.

 

[indiglow]

I think it all depends on what the cheerleader wants out of college cheer. I loved cheering in college. I loved the espn games, the meet and greats, traveling with our basketball team to hawaii and march madness. It was stressful, fun, exhilarating, and hard at times BUT way way different than allstars. Comparing College cheer and allstar cheer is like comparing apples and oranges. Both good but with different qualities and aspects.


That being said, how many of these super senior end up on sr level 1-4, or sr open 5 with young kids? I really don't want my 12 yr old 6th grader on a team with an 18 yr old college freshman so how would parents feel about their 9 yr old on that team? If All Star cultivated the international levels more (14+) I think that this discussion would be a mute point.

 

[King]

possibly, but the international 5 level presents a problem itself. 14 year olds girls with 21 year old males?

not to mention i dont think the division (while EXTREMELY competitive with great US teams) is quite fulfilling the need it set out to.

 

[Mclovin]

A couple of thoughts

1) I think that our current rule of 18 and under is a good rule. That allows most kids to super senior one year onto a senior team. After that, I think they belong in the international division. And I think the international divisions, both level 5 and 6, should be 17 years and older. I also believe we should do away with "international" divisions altogether and just make it open 5 and open 6.

2) I personally hope and pray that when my girls are college age, they move away from their all star roots and live college life to its fullest! (Minus the drinking and drugs mind you.) I hope they go to college somewhere that they can cheer, with or without competing, and enjoy the game time aspect of college cheer; the traveling, the t.v. airtime, just the overall fun of college cheer. I realize some kids don't enjoy that aspect of cheerleading and if mine don't either, then fine, but I hope they do because there's nothing like being in front of a crowd of thousands of people doing what you love.

 

[King]

can a team outside the states compete in the club divisions?

 

[Mclovin]

can a team outside the states compete in the club divisions?

Absolutely!! I think the whole international division thing was dumb to begin with.

 

[mg8923]

I agree with changing the age of IOC5 to 17 or 18. I have seen teams that have 14 year old kids with 25 and 26 year old girls or guys that are in totally different places in their lives. We have heard more than once on this board that they shouldn't have to watch what they say or do because of younger people we just get rid of some of the problems.

I also believe a college freshmen is in a much different place in their lives then a high school freshmen so I would disagree with super seniors.

 

[dohnutt]

I dont really know enough about the industry to comment on how super seniors affect it, but as someone who is most likely going to super senior next year I have come to think it is a good thing. For me, I hate cheering for games, I rather be able to sit in the stands as a fan and watch them, but the biggest thing was the dead floor for college. There is no way my body would be able to handle tumbling on dead floor all the time. I'm having knee surgery at the end of the season and already have a really bad back and i'm not looking to tear my body apart if there are other options. Also, I dont think its always common to find an international team that competes year round like senior teams and I dont want to base my college choice on finding one that is around a gym with an international team I could compete for more than two or three times a season. I found it much easier to find a gym with a senior five team that I would like to cheer for near a college I want to attend. Now if college cheered on spring floor I would most definitely rethink my decision of cheering for college.

 

[cheerymom]

I think one of the difficulties with "super seniors" is the commitment level to an allstar team. In April/May when allstars are trying out, the kids are coming to the end of the season, many are sad to see it end and wanting to hang on to what they know. Then summer/fall rolls around and they get involved in their college activities and now it's more difficult to make practices, make practices sober, avoid scheduling conflicts, etc. That can be frustrating for the rest of the team. I want my kid to move on. Cheer college or not, if an open team opportunity arises she can consider it. Allstars have been a life changing experience for her and have provided her with opportunities she could never get anywhere else. Now it's time for her to take those lessons and move on...

 

[ACEDAD]

can a team outside the states compete in the club divisions?

Absolutely!! I think the whole international division thing was dumb to begin with.

McLovin is correct. They just have to meet the same age grid and level rules.

 

[King]

so why is there an 'international' division then? what is the point of it?

 

[ACEDAD]

so why is there an 'international' division then? what is the point of it?

Because cheerleading isn't nearly ingrained in countries outside of the US and the "open" age limits give them a category where they fit better. Seems older athletes take to cheer more than younger ones outside the US. As the sport grows, it's quite likely the international divisions will be changed as McLovin suggested earlier.

 

[Ja-Mez]

KING!!
I am soooooo happy that you brought this topic up!! I've really been discussing this with quite a few people lately and I was just about to post this topic, so I could rally everyone up and try to push to KEEP the super senior rule the way it is. Here are my points....

-keep super senior age the the same (18, don't change to 17) , but adjust the age cut off date to August 31st like the other age rules in cheerleading, as well as make it consitent with school cut off dates and other "rec/league" sports cut off dates

-I think ecomically and business wise ($$$) changing the super senior age with hurt gyms financially. Not by much, just a bit. Now obviously there is going to be the argument of, "well then just have them cheer on your open team", but the majority of gyms don't have open teams for kids to cheer on, much less actually have successful open teams

-I think its a great experience for those "hard core" cheerleaders to get to move to a top gun, stingray, gymtyme, spirit, or cheer athletics for their "super senior" year and get to cheer on an amazing team. I did it!! (Cheer Athletics - Wildcats 05-06) and it is an experience that I will never forget!!

-I have quite a few more points and arguments with this topic, but I just wanted to start off with these 3 and end on this last one.

-ITS THEIR CHOICE!! The super senior rule is the best of both worlds!! If you want to do 1 more year of all-star, then please DO IT, but if you want to move on and experience college, then DO IT, or.......if you want to do both (I did it) then DO IT!!

just my first couple of thoughts, I am excited to speak about this!!

Ja-Mez

08-10 Tribe Chiefs BACK TO BACK NCA NORTH TEXAS CLASSIC GRAND CHAMPS!!
07-10 Tribe Chiefs 3-TIME ACA NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
07-10 Tribe Chiefs 3-TIME NCA NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
08-09 Tribe Chiefs WORLDS SILVER!!

 

[ACEDAD]

-keep super senior age the the same (18, don't change to 17) , but adjust the age cut off date to August 31st like the other age rules in cheerleading, as well as make it consitent with school cut off dates and other "rec/league" sports cut off dates

This is already in place to happen this year.

 

[Ja-Mez]

-keep super senior age the the same (18, don't change to 17) , but adjust the age cut off date to August 31st like the other age rules in cheerleading, as well as make it consitent with school cut off dates and other "rec/league" sports cut off dates

This is already in place to happen this year.

I heard that they were actually planning on changing it to 17 as well