All-Star Team Punishment?

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I have never been a fan of team punishment. If an athlete is attending practice, working hard, using the right technique, being respectful, accepting instruction, etc. than that athlete should be rewarded and not punished. I couldn't agree more with what the other posters have said - it sounds as if your team may burn out before Fall practices start. If you have a few that are struggling, perhaps you can have an extra practice just for those that can't get the drill right. If it still isn't right, either keep working it during practices while the rest of the group moves on to something else with the other coach. If you have a large group that is not succeeding, re-evaluate your drill to determine if there are some athletes that shouldn't be on the team or whether you need to rework your motions or coaching technique.
 
I am confused. Please bear with me. How does making an athlete who is struggling more exhausted by punishing them by running each time they mess up improve their skills and performance? I thought the more tired you are, the more likely you are to make mistakes? Doesn't this just create a vicious cycle?
 
We almost always used a team punishment approach. If someone was late or not wearing the correct practice wear, we all did ten toe touches per person late/not matching as a group. When we ran the routine, coaches would count up the number of mistakes and do an excise for that amount. Example: 2 stunt drops could be 20 push ups, or 3 drops 30. The exercise changed each time. If there was just a stunt sequence that kept dropping then we would just work individually on it, no punishment. My Sophomore and freshman year we had "punishment" for messing up at a game. Every time you missed up it equaled 5 (maybe 10?) suicides. However by doing extra tumbling on the slide lines during the game it could reduce the number of suicides you do.

In your situation, since its optional, I'm not sure if the group punishment can really be used since they don't technically have to be there.


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There have been studies done regarding the Sociology/Psychology of Sports. Exercise as a team punishment has been identified as not an effective teaching tool. Although it does often refocus attention in the short term, it does not generally lead to better performance.

"Punishment or punitive feedback is discouraged by scholars in sport psychology (Smith, 2006) and by the National Association for Sport and Physical Education (2004), the Women's Sports Foundation (2007), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (1997), and the American Sport Education Program (ASEP, 2007). Scholars in sport psychology support the use of positive reinforcement as the prevailing method of feedback or, in some cases, the use of response-cost punishment (i.e., taking away practice or playing time or some other valued commodity) to strengthen the desired behavior (Smith). The recommended way to change negative behaviors is not to reinforce it at all, but to reinforce desired behaviors (Smith). Reinforcement of desired behaviors clearly shows students and athletes the positive consequences of their behaviors and, if practiced consistently, can lead to the elimination of many undesired behaviors."
 
As much as group punishment seems like it would be good, I think in the long run it can lead to the team not being united. For example, lets say you are punishing the whole team because a group is not hitting a stunt. The groups hitting the stunt will start to get fed up and angry with the group that isn't hitting. This may lead to people to people talking behind that groups back, and the group feels bad. In the situation you described, the people who are there might start to get angry with the people not showing up because they are having to condition for the other peoples mistake. I think conditioning as a team does help bring people together, but not if it is for one person's mistake.
 
There have been studies done regarding the Sociology/Psychology of Sports. Exercise as a team punishment has been identified as not an effective teaching tool. Although it does often refocus attention in the short term, it does not generally lead to better performance.

"Punishment or punitive feedback is discouraged by scholars in sport psychology (Smith, 2006) and by the National Association for Sport and Physical Education (2004), the Women's Sports Foundation (2007), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (1997), and the American Sport Education Program (ASEP, 2007). Scholars in sport psychology support the use of positive reinforcement as the prevailing method of feedback or, in some cases, the use of response-cost punishment (i.e., taking away practice or playing time or some other valued commodity) to strengthen the desired behavior (Smith). The recommended way to change negative behaviors is not to reinforce it at all, but to reinforce desired behaviors (Smith). Reinforcement of desired behaviors clearly shows students and athletes the positive consequences of their behaviors and, if practiced consistently, can lead to the elimination of many undesired behaviors."
Bingo. Ask @bluecat how much punishment fits in the CA philosophy. I'm no expert, but I'm thinking that program has seen a little success over the years.


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We almost always used a team punishment approach. If someone was late or not wearing the correct practice wear, we all did ten toe touches per person late/not matching as a group. When we ran the routine, coaches would count up the number of mistakes and do an excise for that amount. Example: 2 stunt drops could be 20 push ups, or 3 drops 30. The exercise changed each time. If there was just a stunt sequence that kept dropping then we would just work individually on it, no punishment. My Sophomore and freshman year we had "punishment" for messing up at a game. Every time you missed up it equaled 5 (maybe 10?) suicides. However by doing extra tumbling on the slide lines during the game it could reduce the number of suicides you do.

In your situation, since its optional, I'm not sure if the group punishment can really be used since they don't technically have to be there.


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I know I'm not really contributing to the thread here - but you just brought back my repressed memories of this one terrible coach I had once. We dropped a stunt at a football game (which is terrible and embarrassing enough because your classmates will bring it up and make fun of you for the following week) so as if we weren't already embarrassed, she made the entire team run the entire track in the middle of the football game. including on the rival team's side. like right through their cheerleaders. which is not only embarrassing, but disrespectful, too. so then we were being boo-ed and made fun of by everyone at the game instead of just our own team. I actually wanted to curl up in a ball and cry.

an occasional team punishment isn't wrong. I do remember some team runs where some of the older girls on the team gave a morale-boosting pep talk about how we didn't want to do this again and blah blah blah and it helped occasionally. but when something isn't hitting, you're frustrated enough with yourself and your stunt group. adding in frustration, tension, and pressure from the entire team will not help in most situations. (though some kids do thrive under pressure - but for most)
 
Bingo. Ask @BlueCat how much punishment fits in the CA philosophy. I'm no expert, but I'm thinking that program has seen a little success over the years.

At times, we do have team consequences for individual or small group skill mistakes, but we use that fairly sparingly. In our case, it is less about getting someone in "trouble" and more about approximating the pressure they will feel at competitions. (This is more likely used with older, more experienced teams.) Individuals breaking behavior or attendance rules are handled case-by-case and do not typically result in repercussions for the rest of the team.

I couldn't really comment on the specific instance here without hearing both sides.
 
I 100% do not agree with team punishments. There's just been too many times where i've seen it tear the team apart, mentally and physically exhaust them, and make them hate a sport they've loved forever. There are just so many more productive ways to correct behavior/effort/ performance etc.
 
I have used a team punishment a few times....usually make the whole team go into hollow holds if they're getting too chatty. It's always preceded by multiple warnings, and never held long. Only once have I ever done a team punishment as a consequence of an individual. The team learned the lesson (senior aged) to never lie to me about why they were missing practice, or at the very least, not get caught. ;)
 
Last year the captains on my hs team tried giving us group punishment by making us run because the same people were always talking and it didn't go over too well because they watched us do the team punishment and then a few people walked out of practice...
 
Ill try not to rant. One of our former programs as this team punishment mentality. It tore the team apart. The ones that didn't care kept doing the same things and the ones that did care were ready to go to jail over it by the end of the season. It built exactly no team unity. It made kids hate each other.

The kids who are doing something wrong need to be addressed individually. That sets the expectation for everyone that if you mess up YOU will be addressed as well, rather than the passive aggressive "everyone will" when "everyone" wasn't the problem.

Last thing, as a parent, running laps made me so annoyed. My kids aren't on a track team. If a stunt falls, the "punishment" should be that the particular group in question has to hit it 3,5,10 times in a row. THAT will address the fact the group needs more practice. running sprints does nothing.

I don't mind conditioning but make it relevant. Mine don't do suicides in competition (even though they were made to in warm ups once). If you want to have them run suicides, make them handspring or standing tuck where they'd normally touch the floor. If you want endurance conditioning....full out. Make their conditioning relevant to what they do.


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I have to say ITA with this. I watched it tear CPs team apart last year.


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The coach I am not on the same page with claims that this is a problem. I do not like losing kids in my program but from my perspective we are just getting rid of the slackers.

Getting rid of athletes will hurt your program, even if they are "slackers". Unless they're seeking to cause trouble or harm others, numbers are always a good thing. You never know when one of your hard workers may get injured, and a "slacker" may need to step in their place.

Different athletes adapt to different coaching styles. In high school, I did not respond well to punishment. The more my high school coach tried to punish me, the less I would care and the less I would try. This attitude is so common amongst athletes this age. Now that I've been through several years of college, I look back on those days and cringe. At the time, though, I didn't know the difference. Some athletes let their pride get in the way of a negative coaching style, and some coaches let their pride get in the way of losing athletes. I know a coach who had eight seniors quit her national championship team the month of nationals. Both the coach and athletes didn't want to be the one to swallow their pride and acted like it was no big deal. From the conversations I had with the athletes and coach, both sides were hurting tremendously. Neither side really wins there.

As the coach, you're faced with a dilemma: play Mr. Tough guy and lose athletes, or give in and have them walk all over you? It's a tough one to balance, and I had the SAME experiences with coaching and working summer camp staff, and honestly didn't see the issue until taking some of my education courses in college:

I suffered a semester of a BORING discipline class. The text was so dry, but I was really able to apply it to the classroom and coaching: the golden term is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. Recognize and reward the athletes who are doing what they should be doing. It sounds cheezy, but go to Target and stock up on dollar bin items. If one group is constantly nailing the stunt sequence, reward them with a small gift and allow them to help other stunt groups get the stunt down. It creates a "leadership" atmosphere, rather than a "haha I'm better than you and we sit out while you suffer" feeling. Don't do it all the time, or it will turn into bribery and they will expect something all the time. At the end of the week, make sure ALL of your athletes have been recognized somehow. Even the laziest girl, who can't lift a stunt, may be a star tumbler. Have her help another girl with her back handspring. When kids are put into brief leadership positions, and are recognized, they will feel better and want to work harder for you. The brats are the ones who need extra TLC!

Of course, there are times when we have to punish athletes, but make sure it's not a select few athletes all the time. Singling an athlete out really embarrasses them and does not make them want to work harder. If they whole team must do something as a punishment, don't say it's because of "so-and-so's stunt group". High school girls LOVE the blame game and may start petty drama.

Good luck! This age of athletes is tough. You're doing the right thing by asking the board for help--- so many coaches would have just given up by now! Just keep trying and give them a little extra love (even when they don't deserve it) ;)
 
And thanks for the responses everyone I appreciate it. I have always believed in team punishment but I am always trying to improve at coaching and everything I read says that team punishment in general is the way to go. So I am just trying to get other opinions.

I wonder where you are reading that team punishment is the way to go? Most coaching theory/sports theory agree that it is not the way to go.
 
As an athlete... I've experienced team punishment. Sometimes it works but I feel most of the time it doesn't. Like I base the point group and we hit every time. But if another group isn't hitting and we get punished or have to do it a million times, it makes us mad at the specific group. If I'm focused and listening but some other people aren't, I get annoyed being punished. And then it just always ends up with people yelling at each other or mad at each other. If something isn't working, the group should work on it while groups who hit it can move on to something else. And if a few girls are talking they should get called out and punished individually (maybe write down their names and keep them after practice) because its harder to cheat at conditioning in a small group and if they are called out on it they're more likely to stop than if they can keep doing it and not getting blamed because its a "group problem". If you tell a group of teenage girls that "you guys are too chatty" they all assume you're talking about someone else and didn't actually notice them specifically. But if you say "Susie's group, stop talking while we're going over this" or "Susie, Molly, and Kate I need to see you after practice" (and then tell them) then the individuals have to take responsibility. And are less likely to do it again


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