All-Star Team Punishment?

[cheerKT]

We used to do "team punishment" in the form of conditioning for mistakes. We would run the routine and do 25 pushups/crunches/toe touches per mistake (stunt drop, touch down, someone not throwing a pass etc.) We would do the conditioning together, then whatever went wrong that person/group would directly get up and perform the skill they missed a couple of times cleanly with the team cheering them on. Then we would usually get sip of water, quick chat about what to focus on that time and set up again.

I'm a fan of that kind of "punishment". I'm not a big fan of making the team condition for someone being late or someone or something like that. Things happen sometimes. The late athlete should of course run some laps or something like that, but the rest of the team should carry on with practice.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[cheercurl]

I would be much more focused if I was rewarded as in "Those of you who have mastered this motion sequence and can show me will not have to condition....5, 6, 7, 8." #justsayin'

 

[cheer25mom]

Getting rid of athletes will hurt your program, even if they are "slackers". Unless they're seeking to cause trouble or harm others, numbers are always a good thing. You never know when one of your hard workers may get injured, and a "slacker" may need to step in their place.

Different athletes adapt to different coaching styles. In high school, I did not respond well to punishment. The more my high school coach tried to punish me, the less I would care and the less I would try. This attitude is so common amongst athletes this age. Now that I've been through several years of college, I look back on those days and cringe. At the time, though, I didn't know the difference. Some athletes let their pride get in the way of a negative coaching style, and some coaches let their pride get in the way of losing athletes. I know a coach who had eight seniors quit her national championship team the month of nationals. Both the coach and athletes didn't want to be the one to swallow their pride and acted like it was no big deal. From the conversations I had with the athletes and coach, both sides were hurting tremendously. Neither side really wins there.

As the coach, you're faced with a dilemma: play Mr. Tough guy and lose athletes, or give in and have them walk all over you? It's a tough one to balance, and I had the SAME experiences with coaching and working summer camp staff, and honestly didn't see the issue until taking some of my education courses in college:

I suffered a semester of a BORING discipline class. The text was so dry, but I was really able to apply it to the classroom and coaching: the golden term is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. Recognize and reward the athletes who are doing what they should be doing. It sounds cheezy, but go to Target and stock up on dollar bin items. If one group is constantly nailing the stunt sequence, reward them with a small gift and allow them to help other stunt groups get the stunt down. It creates a "leadership" atmosphere, rather than a "haha I'm better than you and we sit out while you suffer" feeling. Don't do it all the time, or it will turn into bribery and they will expect something all the time. At the end of the week, make sure ALL of your athletes have been recognized somehow. Even the laziest girl, who can't lift a stunt, may be a star tumbler. Have her help another girl with her back handspring. When kids are put into brief leadership positions, and are recognized, they will feel better and want to work harder for you. The brats are the ones who need extra TLC!

Of course, there are times when we have to punish athletes, but make sure it's not a select few athletes all the time. Singling an athlete out really embarrasses them and does not make them want to work harder. If they whole team must do something as a punishment, don't say it's because of "so-and-so's stunt group". High school girls LOVE the blame game and may start petty drama.

Good luck! This age of athletes is tough. You're doing the right thing by asking the board for help--- so many coaches would have just given up by now! Just keep trying and give them a little extra love (even when they don't deserve it) ;)

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but have you ever actually been in the classroom, or just had the education classes? I am a veteran high school teacher and can tell you that a lot of what you are saying is classic classroom management straight from the books and falls 100% flat in high school. It all looks great on paper and like it SHOULD work well. much of it is geared toward small children however, and doesn't take into account the fact that you are dealing with hormonal almost adults. Dollar bin trinkets don't work once they are over about 10. Positive reinforcement can work, but you have to be much more subtle about it. If they pick up on what you are doing it is all over.


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[12stepCheermom]

As an athlete... I've experienced team punishment. Sometimes it works but I feel most of the time it doesn't. Like I base the point group and we hit every time. But if another group isn't hitting and we get punished or have to do it a million times, it makes us mad at the specific group. If I'm focused and listening but some other people aren't, I get annoyed being punished. And then it just always ends up with people yelling at each other or mad at each other. If something isn't working, the group should work on it while groups who hit it can move on to something else. And if a few girls are talking they should get called out and punished individually (maybe write down their names and keep them after practice) because its harder to cheat at conditioning in a small group and if they are called out on it they're more likely to stop than if they can keep doing it and not getting blamed because its a "group problem". If you tell a group of teenage girls that "you guys are too chatty" they all assume you're talking about someone else and didn't actually notice them specifically. But if you say "Susie's group, stop talking while we're going over this" or "Susie, Molly, and Kate I need to see you after practice" (and then tell them) then the individuals have to take responsibility. And are less likely to do it again


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THIS times a million.


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[12stepCheermom]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but have you ever actually been in the classroom, or just had the education classes? I am a veteran high school teacher and can tell you that a lot of what you are saying is classic classroom management straight from the books and falls 100% flat in high school. It all looks great on paper and like it SHOULD work well. much of it is geared toward small children however, and doesn't take into account the fact that you are dealing with hormonal almost adults. Dollar bin trinkets don't work once they are over about 10. Positive reinforcement can work, but you have to be much more subtle about it. If they pick up on what you are doing it is all over.


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The one time I decided to clean out a drawer and put stickers on tests the kids were over the moon and I'd missed one... He came back to my desk and asked for his sticker...and he was also a gang banger and the leader of the local bloods. These were high school juniors.

Does that mean stickers are the way to go? No.

Classroom management is 110% predicated on building an authentic relationship with the kid.

Build that first, it doesn't matter if its a trinket, an iPhone or a pat on the back. Kids will do what you ask of them.

This is absolutely no different. And no one ever built a positive and authentic relationship by "punishing" a kid. Those words don't even belong in the same sentence.


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[INeverStopCheering]

I try not to use a whole lot of team punishments. Sometimes we will determine conditioning at the end of practice by performance runs. So for example we'll tell them that every stunt that falls is worth 10 push ups. Or every tumble bust is worth 10 seconds of planks.

Otherwise I simply don't see the point. Let's say the team is talking. As a coach I'm frustrated because my kids are wasting time. Making them stop what they're doing and do push ups isn't solving the problem, it's wasting more time. Additionally, as previously pointed out, the natural thing is to assume it isn't you, so unless you specifically address who is causing the problem, don't expect the problem to stop.

I really don't understand running. We're not runners and our sport does not use running as an integral part of play like soccer. If you're going to punish me, don't waste my time with irrelevant exercises. It just makes you look uneducated as a coach

ETA: That last sentence was kind of harsh, but I feel like running is just a go to thing and a coach who really knows about conditioning and building muscle could come up with something more productive

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[cheer25mom]

The one time I decided to clean out a drawer and put stickers on tests the kids were over the moon and I'd missed one... He came back to my desk and asked for his sticker...and he was also a gang banger and the leader of the local bloods. These were high school juniors.

Does that mean stickers are the way to go? No.

Classroom management is 110% predicated on building an authentic relationship with the kid.

Build that first, it doesn't matter if its a trinket, an iPhone or a pat on the back. Kids will do what you ask of them.

This is absolutely no different. And no one ever built a positive and authentic relationship by "punishing" a kid. Those words don't even belong in the same sentence.


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You are right, and said exactly what I was trying to but better. It is definitely all about relationships at this age, and punishing the group for the mistakes of one does nothing but build resentment. I guess what I was trying to say is that trinkets are not a magic bullet to get them to comply and just come off as fake at this age without the relationship. I do believe that part of building that relationship is holding a kid accountable when you both know that kid messed up. The whole group shouldn't have to pay for it, and the kid shouldn't be singled out for embarrassment, but there definitely has to be a system of consequences in place.


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[stuntaholic]

I guess I just want to address a couple of things real quick.

The first is the fact that running is useful for cheerleading. While the way some coaches do it it is not useful but if used properly it will help athletes. Just running won't do it, it needs to be sprints. The reason sprints are effective is that they are intended to move your legs quickly. This in turn will increase the speed of your fast twitch muscle fibers. By being quicker in your legs you will explode from the ground more in stunting, jumping, and standing tucks/fulls. That is why running can be useful and it is a reason it is a part of my conditioning method. I do not just do sprints I also do them with other conditioning methods that build strength or other fast twitch muscles such as abs.

The second thing I want to throw out there is that I do not use just punishment. I also use rewards this is just one instance where I do punish. I do different types of rewards, sometimes they are physical items other times it is getting out of conditioning and other times it is just simple acknowledgement.

Also just an update. The athletes who were not coming to practice have started coming to practice again and the whole team knows the motion drill perfectly. The athletes on the team pressured the ones who were not showing up into coming to practice. They also had the athletes come in early on work with their teammates in order to learn the motion drill.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I guess I just want to address a couple of things real quick.

The first is the fact that running is useful for cheerleading. While the way some coaches do it it is not useful but if used properly it will help athletes. Just running won't do it, it needs to be sprints. The reason sprints are effective is that they are intended to move your legs quickly. This in turn will increase the speed of your fast twitch muscle fibers. By being quicker in your legs you will explode from the ground more in stunting, jumping, and standing tucks/fulls. That is why running can be useful and it is a reason it is a part of my conditioning method. I do not just do sprints I also do them with other conditioning methods that build strength or other fast twitch muscles such as abs.

The second thing I want to throw out there is that I do not use just punishment. I also use rewards this is just one instance where I do punish. I do different types of rewards, sometimes they are physical items other times it is getting out of conditioning and other times it is just simple acknowledgement.

Also just an update. The athletes who were not coming to practice have started coming to practice again and the whole team knows the motion drill perfectly. The athletes on the team pressured the ones who were not showing up into coming to practice. They also had the athletes come in early on work with their teammates in order to learn the motion drill.

Just to clarify: the coaches didn't pressure the kids to come to practice? All of that came from the kids?


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[RaRaMama]

The one time I decided to clean out a drawer and put stickers on tests the kids were over the moon and I'd missed one... He came back to my desk and asked for his sticker...and he was also a gang banger and the leader of the local bloods. These were high school juniors.

Does that mean stickers are the way to go? No.

Classroom management is 110% predicated on building an authentic relationship with the kid.

Build that first, it doesn't matter if its a trinket, an iPhone or a pat on the back. Kids will do what you ask of them.

This is absolutely no different. And no one ever built a positive and authentic relationship by "punishing" a kid. Those words don't even belong in the same sentence.


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SHIMMY TO INFINITY AND BEYOND! Respect without relationship? Fat chance.....

 

[Just-a-Mom]

The one time I decided to clean out a drawer and put stickers on tests the kids were over the moon and I'd missed one... He came back to my desk and asked for his sticker...and he was also a gang banger and the leader of the local bloods. These were high school juniors.

Does that mean stickers are the way to go? No.

Classroom management is 110% predicated on building an authentic relationship with the kid.

Build that first, it doesn't matter if its a trinket, an iPhone or a pat on the back. Kids will do what you ask of them.

This is absolutely no different. And no one ever built a positive and authentic relationship by "punishing" a kid. Those words don't even belong in the same sentence.


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Love this!

Lol my 40th birthday is in 2 weeks. I still get excited when my teachers give us prizes. We got gum a few weeks ago...made my day. :oops:


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[Cheer Dad]

I guess I just want to address a couple of things real quick.

The first is the fact that running is useful for cheerleading. While the way some coaches do it it is not useful but if used properly it will help athletes. Just running won't do it, it needs to be sprints. The reason sprints are effective is that they are intended to move your legs quickly. This in turn will increase the speed of your fast twitch muscle fibers. By being quicker in your legs you will explode from the ground more in stunting, jumping, and standing tucks/fulls. That is why running can be useful and it is a reason it is a part of my conditioning method. I do not just do sprints I also do them with other conditioning methods that build strength or other fast twitch muscles such as abs.

The second thing I want to throw out there is that I do not use just punishment. I also use rewards this is just one instance where I do punish. I do different types of rewards, sometimes they are physical items other times it is getting out of conditioning and other times it is just simple acknowledgement.

Also just an update. The athletes who were not coming to practice have started coming to practice again and the whole team knows the motion drill perfectly. The athletes on the team pressured the ones who were not showing up into coming to practice. They also had the athletes come in early on work with their teammates in order to learn the motion drill.

So the athletes were able to teach the kids what you couldn't or am I reading this wrong?

 

[cheerkidzmom]

While it is interesting that you have had some success with your team using this method, I am wondering about the actual topic which was the disagreement amongst coaches over the team punishment style of coaching. Many people have commented on the negative effects this type of coaching can bring about. Some people defended this style. Has this made any impact on your decisions to use this as a motivator? I ask because that was really the topic you posted as the original poster and it is interesting to see if people can really look for differing opinions than their own and then really consider them.

 

[Daniellerae]

Our tumbling coach once had everyone show him a snap down, and if it had proper form we "passed." If it didn't we had to get back in line. Once someone failed twice everyone who passed had to condition until everyone else passed. And this was a tumbling class of about 40 people. It wasn't an issue of strength or talent, it was an issue of girls not listening to the coach on what proper form was. I think it helped because 1) it made girls pay attention, and 2) it motivated the girls that did pass to help out their struggling teammates.
On the other hand, if it was an issue of a group working really hard to hit a stunt and its just not going up, that's not something to excessively punish. Maybe a little more conditioning, but I wouldn't add a negative connotation to it.


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[stuntaholic]

So the athletes were able to teach the kids what you couldn't or am I reading this wrong?

I feel like this is kind of a shot at me but I won't take it like that. In order to learn the drill the athletes needed to put a minimal amount of time in on their own or with teammates. The 3 of the 5 athletes that did not know it came in on their own time to work with other athletes to learn the drill. 2 of the 5 athletes came in on their own time and worked the drill with me.