All-Star The Thread To Stop The Hijacking Of The Cea Thread

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

You're crazy. ;)

I figured I wouldn't get much support on that idea. haha...

 

[King]

Crossovers got voted down last time, but having a division of 30 and smaller divisions got voted down the cycle before this past one where it got 'passed'. Lot's of times ideas take a few years of being out there and penetration to really take hold. Just because it was voted down once doesn't mean that will keep it from getting brought up for the next 3 or 4 rules cycles. I think it is a comfortability level with plenty of people. Change is uncomfortable unless the next hop seems familiar and you are all prepared for it. There is no single right way to run a cheer gym. Your area and culture dictate how you get there.

I also eventually see the gymnastics mindset taking over cheer. A gym 'decides' it is a good level 1-3 gym and they make a heckuva lot of money that way and are very successful. We have started seeing it a bit in Georgia (the state). There are less and less level 5 teams in our area that travel, but the 1-3's in our area provide a LOT of constant hard core competition. If more of them traveled to NCA Dallas I bet plenty of them would win 1-3's (and some 4's). And it is alla bout finding your niche and being successful at it. My wife is the Mini 1 coach at Rays (and two other teams as well that chance a lot but are usually young and usually lower level). She has been at Rays for 6 years and taught elite college level stunts with me at NCA camp. She has the ability to lead and instruct level 5 and 6 athletes (and is VERY good at it too) but instead wants to coach Mini 1. That is her Rays Orange or CA panthers. That, to her, is one of the most important teams in the gym. And because she is so smart and dedicated she is quite affective and quite good at her job. I know winning one Dallas jacket for a lot of coaches, she regularly takes home 2 or 3 herself for her teams. You can imagine it is quite frustrating for her husband when he has an OK year! But, in reality, once gyms decide that winning worlds isn't the only way to measure success in cheerleading you are going to find the sport explode even more and become a lot more refined.

PS - those first year of my wife's level 1's finally reached Green for the first time this year. I would say that nice strong background in cheer has made them rather good, wouldn't you?

 

[CoachTamara]

Crossovers got voted down last time, but having a division of 30 and smaller divisions got voted down the cycle before this past one where it got 'passed'. Lot's of times ideas take a few years of being out there and penetration to really take hold. Just because it was voted down once doesn't mean that will keep it from getting brought up for the next 3 or 4 rules cycles.

Before the last rules cycle, there was not as much talk about crossovers at there is now, and "stacking" of teams was hardly noticed beyond worlds teams. I think this season, the crossover issue has been brought to light and debated left and right... Some people who may have not had a dog in the fight now do, and some people have been rubbed the wrong way or even "wronged" in their opinion at competition. Some people may realize it works best for them to have crossovers, some people may not agree. The point is that people are talking, getting educated (on either side), and actually having an opinion this season. This may talk some time, but eventually everyone will have a strong opinion, and that is when the votes actually start to change.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Crossovers got voted down last time, but having a division of 30 and smaller divisions got voted down the cycle before this past one where it got 'passed'. Lot's of times ideas take a few years of being out there and penetration to really take hold. Just because it was voted down once doesn't mean that will keep it from getting brought up for the next 3 or 4 rules cycles. I think it is a comfortability level with plenty of people. Change is uncomfortable unless the next hop seems familiar and you are all prepared for it. There is no single right way to run a cheer gym. Your area and culture dictate how you get there.

I also eventually see the gymnastics mindset taking over cheer. A gym 'decides' it is a good level 1-3 gym and they make a heckuva lot of money that way and are very successful. We have started seeing it a bit in Georgia (the state). There are less and less level 5 teams in our area that travel, but the 1-3's in our area provide a LOT of constant hard core competition. If more of them traveled to NCA Dallas I bet plenty of them would win 1-3's (and some 4's). And it is alla bout finding your niche and being successful at it. My wife is the Mini 1 coach at Rays (and two other teams as well that chance a lot but are usually young and usually lower level). She has been at Rays for 6 years and taught elite college level stunts with me at NCA camp. She has the ability to lead and instruct level 5 and 6 athletes (and is VERY good at it too) but instead wants to coach Mini 1. That is her Rays Orange or CA panthers. That, to her, is one of the most important teams in the gym. And because she is so smart and dedicated she is quite affective and quite good at her job. I know winning one Dallas jacket for a lot of coaches, she regularly takes home 2 or 3 herself for her teams. You can imagine it is quite frustrating for her husband when he has an OK year! But, in reality, once gyms decide that winning worlds isn't the only way to measure success in cheerleading you are going to find the sport explode even more and become a lot more refined.

PS - those first year of my wife's level 1's finally reached Green for the first time this year. I would say that nice strong background in cheer has made them rather good, wouldn't you?

I think everyone can agree with this. However, for this thread the point was if I wanted my child on Orange one day, I would want your wife doing the mini 1 instruction in your gym. I suspect your owner uses that philosphy to great effect for Rays. Now, since this is a a bit about Courtney and her niche, I feel certain her philosophy towards creating Level 5 teams is an acceptable niche, and I can tell by your posting here you agree. I say props to you and your posting on these threads. It has been refreshing.

 

[King]

I have no problem with how CEA does or runs their gym, because they are taking actions within the rules. I have said before, never hate the players, hate the game. And if the game needs changing, change the game, but don't get mad at the players for it.

 

[BlueCat]

I have no problem with how CEA does or runs their gym, because they are taking actions within the rules. I have said before, never hate the players, hate the game. And if the game needs changing, change the game, but don't get mad at the players for it.

Not trying to re-hash the argument itself, but there has been a lot of support nationally for the outright banning or limiting of crossovers. However, getting support for the idea is NOT the biggest hurdle to getting a ban in place. The biggest issue is that a ban would be unenforceable in most cases. A gym could break a crossover rule and it would be VERY difficult to detect. It would require a much more refined registration system and much more effort on the event producer's part.

There are people who oppose the concept of using crossovers in all but a very limited capacity, but won't vote for a ban for logistical reasons. We already have rules that are, as a practical matter, unenforceable. Regardless of your personal opinion on the practice, it seems silly to vote more of those type of rules in at this point.

 

[CoachTamara]

This is a quote from what appeared to me to be an excellent young coach in a program that looked a lot like CEA when we arrived. I think it says a lot about the athletes and this sport. I think your business plan needs to ultimately meet their needs.

Holy moly, I just realized you are talking about me. As a first year gym and gym owner, that made my day! :)

 

[StarshipTrooper]

Holy moly, I just realized you are talking about me. As a first year gym and gym owner, that made my day! :)

I thought your kids and parents were great. That said, 14 years ago, you look a lot like Courtney did, and I think that is appealing to a young coach like you, to think that one day you can go to Worlds with your kids and win. On the cheersnob thread, that was one of my many revelations in Cincinnati. I hope the industrty nurtures you and your colleagues to succeed.

 

[King]

Not trying to re-hash the argument itself, but there has been a lot of support nationally for the outright banning or limiting of crossovers. However, getting support for the idea is NOT the biggest hurdle to getting a ban in place. The biggest issue is that a ban would be unenforceable in most cases. A gym could break a crossover rule and it would be VERY difficult to detect. It would require a much more refined registration system and much more effort on the event producer's part.

There are people who oppose the concept of using crossovers in all but a very limited capacity, but won't vote for a ban for logistical reasons. We already have rules that are, as a practical matter, unenforceable. Regardless of your personal opinion on the practice, it seems silly to vote more of those type of rules in at this point.

I agree and logistically know this. It's why I also understand that their would have to be a fundamental change in how we run competitions. RFID tags for instance (of which you and I both know can work). To me the more pressing issues to solve now are scoresheet and universal registration and tracking. Solve those two and you have a vehicle to accomplish bigger things.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I agree and logistically know this. It's why I also understand that their would have to be a fundamental change in how we run competitions. RFID tags for instance (of which you and I both know can work). To me the more pressing issues to solve now are scoresheet and universal registration and tracking. Solve those two and you have a vehicle to accomplish bigger things.

Question: Why cant the Universal Score Sheet be for the Worlds divisions first? Since that is the one event USASF hosts - Why roll out something for the entire industry until they can get it right for their one competition. It would allow them to tweak it, then apply what they have learned to the rest of the levels. That makes more sense to me and seems infinitely more doable immediately ie for next year.

 

[VTX]

I really like that idea^^ tumbleyoda , it would be sort of straight cut, if you're going to give worlds bids you must use this score sheet. I think that sounds like a great start, and wouldn't it be a plausibly inexpensive and track able idea compared to everything else that is being suggested?

 

[tumbleyoda]

I really like that idea^^ tumbleyoda , it would be sort of straight cut, if you're going to give worlds bids you must use this score sheet. I think that sounds like a great start, and wouldn't it be a plausibly inexpensive and track able idea compared to everything else that is being suggested?

Coming from gymnastics I could never understand how if I was going to work with the cheer coaches to train a team to go after this goal, why we had to change their routine to appeal to an EP to give me a bid, to then have to rework the routine to fit what the score sheet called for at Worlds. It made no sense to me then, and still doesn't. I understand the EP's right to have their own things they look for in every other level but in the Worlds bid division. To me that should be standard regardless of who is giving the bid.

 

[VTX]

Coming from gymnastics I could never understand how if I was going to work with the cheer coaches to train a team to go after this goal, why I had to change their routine to appeal to an EP to give me a bid, to then have to rework the routine to fit what the score sheet called for at Worlds. It made no sense to me then, and still doesn't. I understand the EP's right to have their own things they look for in every other level but in the Worlds bid division. To me that should be standard regardless of who is giving the bid.

I've never coached a worlds team or been on one for that fact, but I agree with you and believe that if you are winning a spot for anything, it shouldn't matter where you receive that spot from, they should all have the same standards. This was my first year being head coach of an older team and I had never realized how different score sheets could be until we didn't win at a local comp, when I got the score sheet back creativity and performance section was worth more than technique and skill sections, which is different then any other event we go to, where they are worth the least. It blew my mind.

 

[VTX]

^^ *how, I wasn't calling anything a hoe....oops

 

[tumbleyoda]

^^ *how, I wasn't calling anything a hoe....oops

ROFLMBO! It is the 5 minute edit rule. Hurry up and change it!