All-Star Too Many Competitions

[Ashley]

I think a company should only be allowed to have one Nationals. The other competitions can be called Regionals. No one takes the title of "National Champion" seriously unless it's from some of the big few. The whole situation is a joke.

I don't really have a problem with the number of competitions that there, just that they're all called nationals. I really don't believe that using that title is going to bring more people to your event.

And don't even get me started on US Finals. You have to get a bid to go (which is fine) but then there are like 10 of them and the winners at each are all National Champions? At least they compare the scores at the end and give overall winners, but jeez.

 

[ctgatormom]

I agree one national per company!!!! Anything else is just ridiculous!!

 

[tumbleyoda]

Calling it a "nationals" doesn't really bother me.

The point about the companies scheduling the competions in the same areas on the same (or very close) weekends is the bigger problem. If competition (or lack thereof) is such a big problem, they need to get some control of who is holding an event, when, and where. The example that you gave in the Philly/NJ area is proof in point. I'm sure there are many more.

From what I have seen two things generally happen. One is contracts on dates with certain venues are already signed so there is no changing the date even if another company has an event the same day and in the same general area. Unless you do multiple events at the same location you are usually locked in with very little wiggle room on dates. Especially if you are using an arena type facility. The earlier the contract is signed the better your cost savings is with that facility. If you plan it right it dont take many teams at all to break even or make a profit if everyone pays and no major discounts are given. It stinks for the sporting side of it, but businesses are generally trying to make money first. All a small event really needs is one to three strong programs with several teams each and they can break even. Every other team plus the gate is straight profit. Barring that scenario several small programs with 1 - 2 teams each works as well. So while wanting more competition is the desire of many it is not always necessary to run an event and make a profit.

The other is companies know that they are going head to head many times with other competition companies. Just like gyms research other gyms for competitions, competition companies do the same thing. They see who is scheduled to go to events, what the other company is charging and may even *gasp* offer them a discount to switch events. To them it is a competition as well to see who will pull the most teams/programs. If one company is percived as stronger, bigger, better than the other it usually helps them on the buisness side of the equation. Maybe the smaller company blinks and changes location or maybe they can be bought out.

 

[MadstarRocksAmerica]

Here in Scotland we have loads of comps, 3-4 ACDCs in a year, 1 or two regonials (Future Cheers) but then we have "Brittish championships" when about 4 teams compete in the Scottish comp, we have a Future Cheer Bournmouth which is said to be like Brittish nationals, then we have 2 Scottish Nationals, which are international! WTH?! God, they're often over the same weekend, and it's just too much!!!

 

[tumbleyoda]

I think a company should only be allowed to have one Nationals. The other competitions can be called Regionals. No one takes the title of "National Champion" seriously unless it's from some of the big few. The whole situation is a joke.

I don't really have a problem with the number of competitions that there, just that they're all called nationals. I really don't believe that using that title is going to bring more people to your event.

And don't even get me started on US Finals. You have to get a bid to go (which is fine) but then there are like 10 of them and the winners at each are all National Champions? At least they compare the scores at the end and give overall winners, but jeez.

You would be surprised. There are many programs who would rather win a no name national than to come in 4th at a big name regional or local. Again it stinks for the sporting side of it but IMO there are so many nationals because it makes money for those companies - probably more so than their regionals or locals - and their customers ask for it. They are rightly or wrongly responding to their clients.

 

[Ashley]

You would be surprised. There are many programs who would rather win a no name national than to come in 4th at a big name regional or local. Again it stinks for the sporting side of it but IMO there are so many nationals because it makes money for those companies - probably more so than their regionals or locals - and their customers ask for it. They are rightly or wrongly responding to their clients.

This is why I left my last gym. They bragged about how many national titles they had and how long they've been around, but they didn't have a level 5 team, and only won lots of rinky dink nationals. Other gyms in the state had never even heard of them (and MA is a very small state), it was ridiculous and I was tired of competing against no other teams.

 

[tumbleyoda]

This is why I left my last gym. They bragged about how many national titles they had and how long they've been around, but they didn't have a level 5 team, and only won lots of rinky dink nationals. Other gyms in the state had never even heard of them (and MA is a very small state), it was ridiculous and I was tired of competing against no other teams.

Understandable.

It is much different when you are trying to build a program going to what you say are rinky dink nationals and when you are an established program and you still claim all those rinky dink Nationals. Those smaller nationals and competitions do have a place but IMHO once you get established start trying to move up a little bit.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Its a business.

That's our point...it shouldn't be, unless we want to continue being called "not a sport". LOTS of sports don't go through school and are a "business" but still manage to have real nationals, and not a GAZILLION competitions with no teams competing against each other.

It IS possible to be a business and still be a sport. Figure skating is one example. It's the same as Allstar Cheer in that you don't do it at school...your parents sign you up and pay for it. The competitions are sponsored by businesses, but they are still local, regional, state, national, and international. You still have to beat someone locally to move on to the higher levels of competition. It doesn't become as "business-y" as our sport until adult age, when the competitions are very similar to ours--run by promoters and purely profit driven.

I just wish our competitions were governed better. Right now you can purposely choose comps that have teams you can beat at them, and still get bids to go on. How about just ONE competition for a local area in November. Then ONE state competition for each state in December. Then ONE regional competition in January. Then ONE national in March. Then Worlds. Once you get to the state level, you'd have to place top 10 (or whatever number) to go on to nationals.

I know why--because the gyms would go out of business because their season would end in December for the majority of them. And eventually everyone would only sign up at gyms that consistently went all the way to at least Nationals. Doesn't mean I can't dream.....

But at least for now I totally agree with Num1stunta's suggestions--at least stop having 3 comps in the same area in the same weekend. And stop calling yourselves "Nationals" if there are only 3 states there.

 

[UCheerMama]

Part of the problem with having only one National competition per company is the issue of where it would be held. It is EXPENSIVE to fly, or even drive, a team across the country. It's one thing when it's for worlds, but how many youth level 2 parents are going to be willing to fly or drive halfway across the country? The sport is already expensive and it's important to try to make it more accessible. I definitely get the argument that national titles become illegitimate because there are so many of them but it is similar with college football....how many bowl games are there now?

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Part of the problem with having only one National competition per company is the issue of where it would be held. It is EXPENSIVE to fly, or even drive, a team across the country. It's one thing when it's for worlds, but how many youth level 2 parents are going to be willing to fly or drive halfway across the country? The sport is already expensive and it's important to try to make it more accessible. I definitely get the argument that national titles become illegitimate because there are so many of them but it is similar with college football....how many bowl games are there now?

But you'd only go ONCE a year. I'd much rather pay ONCE to go to a Nationals in another state then to pay 5 times to go to some silly "Nationals" closer to home. Those could be regionals--there's no shame in winning a regional title--just call it what it is. If you're going to call yourselves "National Champions" you should actually BE national champions. If you're a Youth 2 or a Senior 5 doesn't matter. You're NOT "Youth 2 National Champions" if you've never competed against anyone west of the Mississippi River--especially if there are 5 other Youth 2 National Champs. What's wrong with being "Youth 2 Atlantic Coast Champs"?

As for the sport being expensive and needing to be more accessible...I don't buy that. Lots of sports are expensive--some significantly more expensive than cheer. I don't see them trying to be more accessible. Selfish? Maybe. But I make it work--and trust me...I am by no means rich.

If you knew my salary you would not be able to comprehend HOW i keep 2 kids in cheer. But I find a way. Making this sport more of a joke to outsiders is NOT a way to make it more accesible. And it certainly won't make ANYONE think we're a "real sport" any sooner.

 

[tumbleyoda]

That's our point...it shouldn't be, unless we want to continue being called "not a sport". LOTS of sports don't go through school and are a "business" but still manage to have real nationals, and not a GAZILLION competitions with no teams competing against each other.

It IS possible to be a business and still be a sport. Figure skating is one example. It's the same as Allstar Cheer in that you don't do it at school...your parents sign you up and pay for it. The competitions are sponsored by businesses, but they are still local, regional, state, national, and international. You still have to beat someone locally to move on to the higher levels of competition. It doesn't become as "business-y" as our sport until adult age, when the competitions are very similar to ours--run by promoters and purely profit driven.

I just wish our competitions were governed better. Right now you can purposely choose comps that have teams you can beat at them, and still get bids to go on. How about just ONE competition for a local area in November. Then ONE state competition for each state in December. Then ONE regional competition in January. Then ONE national in March. Then Worlds. Once you get to the state level, you'd have to place top 10 (or whatever number) to go on to nationals.

I know why--because the gyms would go out of business because their season would end in December for the majority of them. And eventually everyone would only sign up at gyms that consistently went all the way to at least Nationals. Doesn't mean I can't dream.....:rolleyes:

But at least for now I totally agree with Num1stunta's suggestions--at least stop having 3 comps in the same area in the same weekend. And stop calling yourselves "Nationals" if there are only 3 states there.

Not to put a fly in the ointment but whose competition company would run that event?

There are answers to do what you suggest (I have suggested it on other boards) but I would like to hear your input and that of others. Varsity? Jamfest? Who gets the mighty local that would qualify people to go to a state and the state to go to a national.

You not only would have a lot of gyms go out of business but competition companies too. Unless you found a way to allow the competition companies to still exist and feed into the local comp you are speaking of.

 

[UCheerMama]

I think they need to figure out a way to create a "worlds" type competition for all levels. I know there has been an attempt withthe IALC and US Finals....but it again seems driven by the business side of the sport. I don't think earning a bid to this type of comp should be so easy. Maybe the teams that won National titles at one of the many Nationals that are held across the country could be eligible to attend. It would be nice too if it travelled from state to state so that it is more accessible.
And I get that all star sports are expensive....some more expensive than cheer. I too have two daughters in cheer and our third daughter will soon be cheering. I'm not saying that the sport should be "cheapened" at the cost of deligitimizing the sport, but I think cost should be somewhat of a consideration. Do we want to make it a sport only of elitists? Only the wealthy can participate? Are you really a national champion when you only compete against the teams that can afford to travel across the country for a competition? I KNOW there are a lot of VERY talented kids whose parents just could not afford travelling across the country for a competition without some sort of paid bid. I just think it is something to keep in mind.

 

[newcheerdad]

The big problem I have is identifying what's a "quality" event. Even the USASF criteria isn't really helpful. While it's nice to see my daughter happy when her team wins a "regional" or "national" event, when it's competing against one or zero mini 2 teams it seems a little hollow.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Not to put a fly in the ointment but whose competition company would run that event?

There are answers to do what you suggest (I have suggested it on other boards) but I would like to hear your input and that of others. Varsity? Jamfest? Who gets the mighty local that would qualify people to go to a state and the state to go to a national.

You not only would have a lot of gyms go out of business but competition companies too. Unless you found a way to allow the competition companies to still exist and feed into the local comp you are speaking of.

I have no idea. I'm probably not a good person to ask...because the thought of a few of these competition companies going out of business doesn't exactly sadden me.

Have the competitions SPONSORED by private companies, not RUN by them. You know, like a "'real sport"...

 

[UCheerMama]

The big problem I have is identifying what's a "quality" event. Even the USASF criteria isn't really helpful. While it's nice to see my daughter happy when her team wins a "regional" or "national" event, when it's competing against one or zero mini 2 teams it seems a little hollow.

I fully agree and I too HATE to "win" when there is no legitimate competition. Part of it is having a director/coaching staff who can choose legitimate competitions to take your teams to.