All-Star Trinity And Cheerupdates

[Leithal Weapon]

NO! Most if not all colleges/universities offer scholarships to athletes. The recruit, and try to out offer the next school, pretty much buy you. However, the difference here is there are also certain requirements that go along with the scholarships, like minimum GPA etc.
I have no comment on the issue, but to many of you that do, I am sure this is not something new. And I am pretty sure it is a common practice; though however, not to this extent and not as blatent.

Also the difference here is that this is kids that we're talking about, not College age athletes or older. Kids that probably don't understand the potential implications of this kind of thing

 

[TheUltimateFan]

@TheUltimateFan- were you referencing something like what Olympian gymnasts have to worry about with pro vs amateur status? As in how since Shawn Johnson accepted payment/sponsorship she can't compete at the collegiate level if she so chose..but Sam Peszek and Bridget Sloan still can.

I don't know if something like this WOULD affect their amateur status and their ability to compete for a school. There's no precedent for this so it isn't like there's anything to base it off of...

I wasn't referencing this in the context of how a cheer athlete might be considered as having pro vs. amateur status, but I definitely agree this could be an issue - maybe in the future if this were to become an Olympic sport.

I was speculating how a lawyer might approach this argument in court, if Trinity did pursue a lawsuit, or even how it could be argued in the court of the almighty Media. Does providing room and board, free tuition, free uniforms qualify as payment to an athlete in another sport where these rules matter (e.g. gymnastics)? If so, then there is no difference between what Trinity did by giving a house or a car or cash (whatever) from a legal perspective. It's just a bigger paycheck, a higher bid. That could open all kinds of new doors.

I personally believe it is wrong to compensate an athlete in this sport, for all of the same reasons already presented here by others. Especially for the impact it has on the rest of the team, when one or more athletes appear to be more 'valued' than others. Having the athletes make even a reasonable effort to work to pay back the assistance they have been given benefits both the team and the athletes themselves. It's a great neutralizer. And that doesn't mean 'working' a job modeling their own fashion line. ;-)

 

[FierceIsTheName]

I know, right? I got to enjoy my Thanksgiving and it was cheer-drama free! I just played Wii U and watched football..

You. Have. a. Wii. U? OMG SO JEALOUS. I tested one out at a nintendo event in july, and have wanted one ever since!

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I wasn't referencing this in the context of how a cheer athlete might be considered as having pro vs. amateur status, but I definitely agree this could be an issue - maybe in the future if this were to become an Olympic sport.

I was speculating how a lawyer might approach this argument in court, if Trinity did pursue a lawsuit, or even how it could be argued in the court of the almighty Media. Does providing room and board, free tuition, free uniforms qualify as payment to an athlete in another sport where these rules matter (e.g. gymnastics)? If so, then there is no difference between what Trinity did by giving a house or a car or cash (whatever) from a legal perspective. It's just a bigger paycheck, a higher bid. That could open all kinds of new doors.

I personally believe it is wrong to compensate an athlete in this sport, for all of the same reasons already presented here by others. Especially for the impact it has on the rest of the team, when one or more athletes appear to be more 'valued' than others. Having the athletes make even a reasonable effort to work to pay back the assistance they have been given benefits both the team and the athletes themselves. It's a great neutralizer. And that doesn't mean 'working' a job modeling their own fashion line. ;-)

well looking at it from another perspective... from amateur point of view, do private high schools not give/offer scholarships for tuition? First and foremost, I'm aware that the criteria in that situation involves academia and most often financial need as well, in addition to similar requirements to maintain the scholarship, like GPA, academic performance, etc. Are there not also very well known sporting programs at certain private schools that offer students free tuition based on athletic talent (often regardless of financial "need")? Obviously w/a school, just like college there would be requirements to maintain. But is it not a very similar situation?

I totally get what you and most everyones else is saying btw...Just considering different facets since it's been brought up w/so many different regards to legal precedents.

 

[f5forever]

I don't like free rides. That's just my opinion. When I cheered I was (arguable) the strongest tumbler in my gym, I was last pass on my team. I didn't believe in free rides so I talked to the gym owner about a "work scholarship". I got a bit taken off of tuition because I came in early and cleaned the gym (took out trash, vacuumed, wiped mirrors, etc). Though now I think I should have gotten some off the tuition because I drove 2 hours each way to practice. I wish it would have been I got the equivalent of gas money off considering they asked me to do 3 teams my senior year I was going to the gym 4 days a week!

 

[kristenthegreat]

You. Have. a. Wii. U? OMG SO JEALOUS. I tested one out at a nintendo event in july, and have wanted one ever since!

Nah my cousins do lol. They love video games. Not counting handheld devices, there are approx. 10 different video game systems in the house. From Klikovision to original Nintendo to Xbox 360 and Wii U. It's nuts. I don't know how they keep things organized..

In terms of thread- while it kinda doesn't sit right with me (the almost buying of athletes), I'm not as bothered as maybe I should be. What confuses me: people on here are talking about how the other parents must feel about not feeling as 'valued'. Isn't that life? If you're the best, you sometimes get nice things. Life isn't fair- and although this is a BIT extreme, how is it any different? This is a team sport, yes, but not everyone is equal. If you have two equally hard-working kids with equally good attitudes but one has better skills, one has a bit more value. That's life. I'm not saying kick the other one to the ground and beat them with Charleston Chews, but by nature the more talented one will make their presence known by default..

 

[cheermeup]

Nah my cousins do lol. They love video games. Not counting handheld devices, there are approx. 10 different video game systems in the house. From Klikovision to original Nintendo to Xbox 360 and Wii U. It's nuts. I don't know how they keep things organized..

In terms of thread- while it kinda doesn't sit right with me (the almost buying of athletes), I'm not as bothered as maybe I should be. What confuses me: people on here are talking about how the other parents must feel about not feeling as 'valued'. Isn't that life? If you're the best, you sometimes get nice things. Life isn't fair- and although this is a BIT extreme, how is it any different? This is a team sport, yes, but not everyone is equal. If you have two equally hard-working kids with equally good attitudes but one has better skills, one has a bit more value. That's life. I'm not saying kick the other one to the ground and beat them with Charleston Chews, but by nature the more talented one will make their presence known by default..

I think each individual parent has their limit for what they can deal with. Some parents may not care at all that they are financing the others but some parents do care.

I'm a parent that does care. After 5 years we are at a new gym, for many reasons. One of the reasons was it was advertised that boys would be free, no matter what their skill level. There was also an "international" youth team that was going to be free. I decided that I wasn't willing to finance that. I know most gym owners mark stuff up to make money, but some of the markups were ridiculous. I work really hard for my money and there are things that my family needs that I can better spend that money on.

Here is me sticking my nose in the trinity thing. I would not be happy if my child were on a team full of cheerlebrities and I found out all that had been promised to them.

Cheer is a team sport, you win as a team and lose as a team, no individual is more important than the team. Does anyone know how this team looks? What about their stunt, their music, anyone know? Anyone care? No, but we know the names of 5 kids on the team (or whomever is left of the cheerlebrities) and their comings and goings. We know the public drama of this team but nothing about the rest of the team. As a parent, I have to reply with a hearty hell no, this is not what being on a cheer team sounds like.

Did any of you ever do the caste system activity at school in social studies where you randomly drew paper and some had to be royalty and some had to be plebeians? You dressed the part and came to school and at the beginning of the day it was all fun but by the end the royals were a tight knit group and the plebs felt like dog do? That's what I feel happens when some athletes on a team are openly valued more than others, a little caste system within the team gets developed and somebody is going to feel bad about themselves. This also happened at our last gym, but it was more with one team. That team walked on water and the rest were whatever. Parents said, we all pay the same tuition, why don't we get the same perks/treatment?

At the end of the day, each family has to decide what is best for them. I'm speaking from my perspective. What we look for in an all star experience is different from what someone else looks for. Being at a gym is so individual, it's never one size fits all.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

If you have two equally hard-working kids with equally good attitudes but one has better skills, one has a bit more value.

I think this might not always be the case (I don't know any of these kids at Trinity, so I'm not talking about them, just in general). That's the problem. I agree with what is said here:

There is a big difference from what I've seen in dedication, attendance and performance when there is some type of work (stunting and tumbling classes, cleaning) required in exchange for tuition. When you scholarship them to come without earning it every other paying child and parent on the team becomes a hostage to that child. The gym owner sends the message that we NEED this child. I would not want my cp on a "designer" team. I want her on a team made up of talented kids drawn in by a gyms reputation and skills willing to try out and compete for the spot.

 

[Nothanks]

Are there not also very well known sporting programs at certain private schools that offer students free tuition based on athletic talent (often regardless of financial "need")? Obviously w/a school, just like college there would be requirements to maintain. But is it not a very similar situation?

Actually, high schools are not allowed to give scholarships based on athletics. If they did, the child wouldn't be eligible for NCAA play/scholarships. They may very well want a kid for whatever sport, and try to give them a scholarship based on need, academics or something else, but they can't do it based on sports.

 

[ANNA!]

Actually, high schools are not allowed to give scholarships based on athletics. If they did, the child wouldn't be eligible for NCAA play/scholarships. They may very well want a kid for whatever sport, and try to give them a scholarship based on need, academics or something else, but they can't do it based on sports.

There has been an issue with private high schools in colorado giving scholarships to football players to build up powerhouse football programs that just crush any public school. In CO the rules set up by CHSSA say that if you switch schools and play a sport you must sit out x amount of games (most of the time its half the season) this is to discourage recruiting and switching schools just for sports but for some reason this doesn't apply to private schools. So what these schools have been doing is going into rougher parts of town and recruiting boys giving them free tuition to their school and such. Even other football parents drive every day into these rougher areas to pick up the boys take them to school then bring them back after football practice. This is so unfair and somehow they do it so under the table hush hush that it doesn't affect these boys NCAA eligibility. Through doing this they have built powerhouse teams that have the ability to shut out even the best public schools they play. One of the schools actually got fined this year because CHSSA found out about this recruiting so they weren't let into any of the football leagues but somehow they were still able to compete in the playoffs and are headed to the state championships.
I think that paying for and sponsoring athletes is wrong no matter how talented they are. This is why cheer needs to become an NCAA sport because that way we could have rules in place that would stop Trinity and other gyms from doing things like this.
However I think if a gym gives a athlete a scholarship because their family is struggling and the athlete in exchange helps out around the gym (cleaning, teaching classes, ect.) I think that is totally fine because cheer is extremely expensive and that is what drives some out of the sport.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Maintaining Amateur Status to Play Sports in College

My takeaway --- If Cheer were to ever become an NCAA recognized sport, some of these athletes/cheerlebrities might find themselves ineligible. (Not just those at Trinity).

 

[TheUltimateFan]

Maintaining Amateur Status to Play Sports in College

My takeaway --- If Cheer were to ever become an NCAA recognized sport, some of these athletes/cheerlebrities might find themselves ineligible. (Not just those at Trinity).

And take it to the next level....Susie's family gets some substantial compensation so that she can cheer at a premier program, including cash and/or a home. Susie's little sister Mary is on a Youth 2 team at the time, but becomes a superior athlete.... and now cheerleading is finally recognized as a sport. She could lose her amateur status because the family was subsidized at the gym she cheered for and she directly benefited from that. This is a stretch but I am putting it out there to encourage thinking about all of the possible future consequences. It seems like all the rules imposed now are reactive - reacting to something happening now. But if we truly do want to see this as a recognized sport, we have to start looking forward too.

The analogy xtremeteal4life put out there is a good one. Right now we are a group of 'private' clubs (schools). But if we become a legitimately recognized sport there will be sanctions such as the one referred to in the last couple of posts. The status of those athletes caught in the transition could be in question.

 

[CheerDadof2]

This is why cheer needs to become an NCAA sport because that way we could have rules in place that would stop Trinity and other gyms from doing things like this.
However I think if a gym gives a athlete a scholarship because their family is struggling and the athlete in exchange helps out around the gym (cleaning, teaching classes, ect.) I think that is totally fine because cheer is extremely expensive and that is what drives some out of the sport.

Who's to say some if not all the kids in question don't have a need? If they're as talented as we think they are isn't it reasonable to believe that they where scholarshiped at the gyms they came from? I don't know how many times I've been told by different gyms, some that advertise it and some that don't, that boys don't pay. Shoot, there was a gym during the tryout season in ATL advertising that fulls or double fulls don't pay, how is this any different? What because they offered to pay for travel?

I saw this posted earlier in one of the 3 threads that had been dedicated to this over the last couple of days - "seems to me that someone is just pissed that they're being beat at their own game" something to that affect. I couldn't agree more. Compared to some of the recruiting techniques I've heard of this is way more ethical. (which is rather sad actually)

I took out this part of your post because first you say you want scholarshiping to stop and then you say that it's ok if there are extenuating circumstances. No offense but you can't have it both ways.

Everyone keeps saying that they'd be upset if they where paying for other people to cheer for free. We did it at our gym last year, everything was marked up etc.. Given that the gym in question has strong financial backing, I think it's safe to say that nobody is paying for someone else to cheer, except for maybe the owner.

 

[brandon0309]

When I was at brandon, they had a scholarship program & it was set up fantastically, no one ever had an issue with it.. I'm sure they still follow it! Generally the boys were the ones being offered the scholarships, but they were only offered them as they were joining our gym.. they weren't giving them out to boys at other gyms.. I believe there were 1 or 2 females as well that had been with the program for sometime & needed help so they were offered one as well.. but, how it worked was if anyone was being offered a "scholarship" & wasn't paying the monthly gym fees they had to do extra things around the gym. Help keep the facility clean & organized, including the restrooms, help with tumbling & stunting classes or camps, things like that.. worked out great for the gym, those athletes & no one else had a problem with them having the scholarships because they did put in work for them!

 

[BowsnBling]

I don't like free rides. That's just my opinion. When I cheered I was (arguable) the strongest tumbler in my gym, I was last pass on my team. I didn't believe in free rides so I talked to the gym owner about a "work scholarship". I got a bit taken off of tuition because I came in early and cleaned the gym (took out trash, vacuumed, wiped mirrors, etc). Though now I think I should have gotten some off the tuition because I drove 2 hours each way to practice. I wish it would have been I got the equivalent of gas money off considering they asked me to do 3 teams my senior year I was going to the gym 4 days a week!

We used to have a gas allowance discount. If you drove over a certain amount per month to practice you got a discount. =)