All-Star Usasf Proposed Rule Changes For 22-23

NJ Coach

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YES... I was waiting for someone to say this. Again... exactly like gymnastics.

So top level teams will crush it because that have enough potential athletes and experienced coaches to make this happen... and your smaller teams with rookie coaches will push athletes into skills that are not ready for just to get the points and compete with the big dogs.

I remember when I moved back home to Wisconsin. I coached advanced tumbling in Oceanside, CA (right by San Marcos)... all of my athletes had double fulls... you had to have a full to even get in the class. They were all CA Bullets. When I took over the advanced tumbling class in Wisconsin... no one could even do a proper BHS.

Some areas may be ready for this rule change... others may not. The amount of athletes wanting to tumble in San Diego was just far greater that Wisconsin. We had a whole complex of beginner and intermediate lead up classes in San Diego... only one beginner / int combo class below advanced in WI.
Basically. If you want to be competitive, you are going to stack your team with every skill available to you. If you don't have the all "elite" skills for the level, you stay down a level, are moved to "prep" or something along those lines.
 

catlady

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Basically. If you want to be competitive, you are going to stack your team with every skill available to you. If you don't have the all "elite" skills for the level, you stay down a level, are moved to "prep" or something along those lines.
Thank you, you did a much better job of explaining this! I definitely answered in terms of what's required to be competitive in level 1 versus actual requirements.

I won't speak for everyone that had/has older beginners, but I know both of my kid's at age 14 would have preferred the bwo be totally eliminated from competitive cheer. Both of them had a bwo and got it relatively easily, but neither enjoyed doing them. From purely a parent money perspective, if it's not imperative for the next skill, if it's not used consistently throughout cheer, and it can cause back injury....Why?
 
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oncecoolcoachnowmom

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I feel like it is helpful in terms of shaping the concept of going backwards and bearing weight on your hands before it becomes an “if you bail this you are going down hard on your head” situation if you have never done that - but a bridge kick or bridge rock or even cartwheel and/or round off can do same thing.

You’re also not doomed to never get a BHS if you never master a back walk over though, whereas kids struggling to bridge, round off, cartwheel might be.

For example in high school cheer progressions you typically do not see “must have BWO” because it is not a dealbreaker as to “If you don’t have the skill you are not going to be able to progress further.”
 
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JBS

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    @JBS Gymnastics does a better job focusing on technique and progression with tumbling than cheer.

    Maybe overall... but that depends on the the club and coaching staff too. There are some pretty terrible gymnastics coaches out there.

    We were at Woodward Pennsylvania with Top Gun one year and I had a conversation with Victor about how they teach twisting. I don't remember exactly everything he said... but I do remember that I was extremely impressed with his level of knowledge and the drills... concepts... and techniques they were using for tumbling.
     

    NJ Coach

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    We were at Woodward Pennsylvania with Top Gun one year and I had a conversation with Victor about how they teach twisting. I don't remember exactly everything he said... but I do remember that I was extremely impressed with his level of knowledge and the drills... concepts... and techniques they were using for tumbling.
    Victor and Kristen Rosario are pretty impressive. Pretty sure Victor was a high level gymnast before his cheer days. They amaze me with some of the things they have come up with.
     

    JBS

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    Victor and Kristen Rosario are pretty impressive. Pretty sure Victor was a high level gymnast before his cheer days. They amaze me with some of the things they have come up with.

    I gotta get to Woodward again... super fun. I even used to take my BMX bike when I went. Nothing like bringing tons of different sports together in a super cool place. Here's a bit more off topic introduction of me... I'm on the right...

     

    Keep_Believing

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    True, I guess it just depends. When my girls were younger they tried gymnastics and cheer. Gymnastics spent time on handstands, handstand forward rolls, handstand backward rolls, cartwheels on right & left sides, pointed toes, etc. Cheer had them going straight to running round-offs, back walkovers, and backhand springs.
     

    catlady

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    You can always spot the ex-gymnast on cheer teams. Their tumbling is usually so pretty!
    Technique is one thing I believe Summit has helped tremendously. The 2017 team is one of the last Summit level 1 teams I watched in person. While it's a slow routine, their technique was incredible, and they set the bar incredibly high. They are the reason I don't think it's far fetched for a lot of the current competitive level 1 teams to have athletes with bhs's. The 2013 team was incredible for 2013, but it shows what happened to the technique bar in just four years:

    2017

    2013
     
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    oncecoolcoachnowmom

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    Yes! Summit has raised the bar.

    Something I’ve noticed in Summit teams in the past years is that as the bar gets raised, you almost have to be a level ABOVE the team’s level to make the team and be successful on it.

    For example, to make a Summit-winning Senior 1, you probably need to basically be a level 2 athlete.

    Sort of like when schools have required minimum skills. It might require a BHS, but it is beyond required when everyone in the tryout pool has a tuck.

    These proposed changes are going to further promote that (Which has some pros and cons.)

    There almost needs to be a true beginner type event specifically for kids who don’t have those experiences.

    Like a prep or rec version or starter version of regional Summit if you will.
     
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