All-Star Usasf Response To Varsity's Announcement

[Rudags]

To be honest, I think its helps my teams not to peak too early by making small changes throughout the year... Keeps things exciting!

 

[coach12]

I do think i would want a universal score sheet.
The way it is now our gym attends both varsity & jambrands events, plus all star challenge. When putting together our routines, we study ALL the scoresheets & try to cover everything as best we can. In the end, we do end up making up a routine that highlights our strengths. It just gets annoying trying to keep up with everything.

 

[King]

No way to say this without sounding too nerdy, but: If we had proper data I am pretty sure we could prove the differences in scoresheet provide no statistically significant difference in scoresheets. Meaning although people's goal is to offer differences and choice in reality all competitions come to the statistically same conclusion, but over a short period do not offer a ton of consistency. Something that is consistent over the long run but not the short run just makes people mad.

 

[ACEDAD]

I've said it before, but just so it's registered: I would like to see all skills scored exactly the same, but allow each company to weight things differently.

That would allow All Star Challenge to assign a higher percentage to choreography, creativity, etc. and UCA to assign a higher percentage to stunting, cleanliness, etc.

 

[5-6-7-8]

I've said it before, but just so it's registered: I would like to see all skills scored exactly the same, but allow each company to weight things differently.

That would allow All Star Challenge to assign a higher percentage to choreography, creativity, etc. and UCA to assign a higher percentage to stunting, cleanliness, etc.

Agreed!

I think part of the push for a universal (and visible) scoresheet is partly to address the issue of perceived inconsistencies in scoring by simplifying the judging process. I am in favor of that, but also allowing EPs to weight categories how they want.

 

[coach12]

I've said it before, but just so it's registered: I would like to see all skills scored exactly the same, but allow each company to weight things differently.

That would allow All Star Challenge to assign a higher percentage to choreography, creativity, etc. and UCA to assign a higher percentage to stunting, cleanliness, etc.

Perfect idea!!

 

[King]

I've said it before, but just so it's registered: I would like to see all skills scored exactly the same, but allow each company to weight things differently.

That would allow All Star Challenge to assign a higher percentage to choreography, creativity, etc. and UCA to assign a higher percentage to stunting, cleanliness, etc.

There still wouldn't be much variance in the winners. Here is why:

Every top level gym is going to multiple competitions (at many different levels). They know that at a lot of places they are going to have different scoresheets (between switching from Jam Brands to Varisty to Allstar Challenge to an IEP. All these different scoresheets emphasize different things, however none of them punish anything another scoresheet does. If Jam Brands requires 3 body positions and an entry it is not like meeting Jam Brands stunt requirements hurts a teams chances at a Varsity event. If an IEP requires a very intricate dance that is very showy it is not like that dance will score low at a Jam Brands event. Gyms build a routine to do well on all scoresheets, as well as teams that do everything well.

Outside of the one time at Worlds where Panthers took a huge advantage in small senior of the sync tumbling section (and notice how now that has become normal everywhere) there is not much movement in who wins.

People just have a bias that they do well on a certain scoresheet. If you overly tailor your routine to just one scoresheet (meaning you just look at what Jam Brands requires but not Varsity and IEP) then yes, you will definitely do well on only one scoresheet. But, people, come on! If varsity says you need a two jump series combination and Jam Brands says you need a jump series with a quad toe (for example) just put a two jump series in your routine and make one of them a quad toe (see how that meets both requirements?).

Unless Jam Brands/Varsity/IEP's start making requirements where to win at their competition you have to do something that negatively affects the routine for other places (let us say a 10 eight count dance is now required at all IEP events) there is no real scoresheet difference. Mostly it is just headaches for coaches to meet everyones requirements (because what talented coach you know would knowingly ignore a requirement going to a major competition... and set themselves up to lose?) and judges who have to work at different events for different brands. It isn't like we have great judges coming out of our ears, so we either divide them and have fewer great judges at major events or great judges always trying to adjust to scoresheets.

If you really want to have variance in the winners more frequently you need to make it much more difficult to score high (or have no cap on potential points) and raise the deduction points.

 

[King]

Perfect example: Does anyone (maybe BlueCat because I didn't save mine) have the final standings for IOC5 at NCA and the final standings for bids? Those percentages were WILDLY different, but the order did not change much.

 

[ACEDAD]

There still wouldn't be much variance in the winners.

That's not my goal. I don't care who wins. My goal is to allow the EPs to have an identity.

 

[yojaehs]

That's not my goal. I don't care who wins. My goal is to allow the EPs to have an identity.

I don't see an EP's identity as their score sheet. I've heard this argument when Universal Score Sheet comes up as well as "cookie cutter" routines.
My reply to those two is -
1. I feel an EP's TRUE identity is customer service and dates of availability.
2. I argue that EVERY competition is on their own "Universal Score Sheet" for their event. I'm yet to see an identical routine. All EP's are requiring the same elements just some count elements differently. Why does scoring have to be so dang difficult. Make it easy and let the teams fall where they may.

 

[CoachTamara]

I don't see an EP's identity as their score sheet. I've heard this argument when Universal Score Sheet comes up as well as "cookie cutter" routines.
My reply to those two is -
1. I feel an EP's TRUE identity is customer service and dates of availability.
2. I argue that EVERY competition is on their own "Universal Score Sheet" for their event. I'm yet to see an identical routine. All EP's are requiring the same elements just some count elements differently. Why does scoring have to be so dang difficult. Make it easy and let the teams fall where they may.

This. We make our schedule based on the dates and how close it is. We do not have the money to travel a ton, and even a competition that is 5 hours away requires travel, hotel, etc. If I can drive there and home in a day, I'll consider it. Once I have all competitions that are close listed, I pick the dates that work the best. I then go through competition companies that I have had a problem with in the past (poor customer service) and eliminate them because I simply don't want to give them my business. Then, pick and choose. Try a variety. My schedule does not come from scoresheets, it comes from the above-customer service and dates. Always.

 

[King]

That's not my goal. I don't care who wins. My goal is to allow the EPs to have an identity.

The identity of the competition is the venue, the town, the customer service, the pomp and circumstance. Though UCA and NCA on are the same scoresheets I have yet to hear anyone ever randomly go... "Whoah! I just thought I was in Dallas!" when they were in Orlando.

EP's focus on the wrong thing.

 

[cupieqt]

yojaehs CoachTamara this is the truth. I do prefer a certain scoresheet but it's not my number 1 reason for choosing those events. For example, we used to do 4-5 jamfest events a year. They have dwindled the number of events near us down to 2 so this year we will only be doing 1 (the other is still far enough away that it would require travel and it's not a big enough event to warrant that for us). So I'm down to 1 EP scoresheet that I prefer with events near me. Gotta try new things if we want to compete! Either that or save up enough to travel more.

 

[BlueCat]

If you really want to have variance in the winners more frequently you need to make it much more difficult to score high (or have no cap on potential points) and raise the deduction points.

If your goal is simply variance and randomness (giving every team a "fair" chance to win) you could simply roll dice after every performance and give that many extra points to each team.

 

[King]

If your goal is simply variance and randomness (and the illusion every team having a "fair" chance) you could simply roll dice after every performance and give that many extra points to each team.

I may or may not have a 20 sided die... if needed.