All-Star Very Important!! New Tumbling Rules Questions. We Need Your Help.

[Seeker30]

I feel that not allowing so much is better only because standing fulls/doubles and running doubles and bounding passes are elite. you cant get a team with all standing fulls or all running doubles yes they work at it but theres no team. i dont see the reason to have all this additional tumbling when. i just dont like how we can easily be like oh CEA has so and so standing F5 has blah blah running and world cup this. we can already hav an idea what they will score in tumbling and who maxes out, and theres not big deductions. where if 99 percent of every team had the same tumbling and deductions would be bigger then no one would know. . . if that makes any sense.
just my opinion.

 

[kristenthegreat]

The problem is I can't think of any good reasons FOR or AGAINST restricting tumbling. I do think restricting it is attacking the wrong side of the problem, because you're not addressing the 'cause of error', if you will. I believe that people should be allowed to push for highest potential, knowing full well that many people were not going to get there ever, perhaps. If there was HARD, FACTUAL data that suggested that these skills ACTUALLY were too dangerous to attempt, I would consider it. There is nothing, however, to suggest that these skills cause the majority of injuries (to my knowledge), and I'm more likely to believe that it's the lower level skills (which have the majority of people attempting them) where you will see the most injuries.

If they WOULD like to address a better method, I suggest a more rigorous coaching credentialing that can be slowly released to coaches, getting progressively more in-depth. Perhaps have a section of the regional meetings be devoted to tumbling 'talk'- with a well-established instructor going over conditioning, proper spotting, etc. Have an online database of drills and coaching advice for people to refer to. A temporary 'bandaid' that rewards good technique/execution over quantity is a way to force coaches/gym owners who are 'all about the win' to pull back on sloppy skills that will cost them a title.

 

[MissCongeniality]

You do not have to be throwing elite tumbling skills for an injury to occur. How many people have gotten injured on back handsprings? Jumps? Tucks? Whether it be poor coaching or poor choices, injuries occur every day in every sport (and non-sport) at every level! I don't believe that removing the most elite tumbling skills from the equation is going to keep the majority of kids from being injured. Those amazing tumblers are still going to throw their skills...just not at comps!

What I'd love to know is what is being done to address concussions in this sport? A sprained ankle heals... A damaged brain is a different story! The concussions in cheer are happening during stunting primarily. If tumbling is reduced to a cookie cutter level for level 5, you know that teams are just going to push the envelope with stunting, resulting in increased accidents like concussions. Is that ok because it's less visible on the floor...you don't wear an ankle or knee brace for a damaged brain?

 

[David]

Tumbling should not be restricted because all it does is try to solve the RIGHT problem the WRONG way. Do kids get hurt tumbling because of bad coaching? Sure. Do kids with great coaches get hurt tumbling? Absolutely. They need to look harder at the real problem of why kids are getting hurt, and the answer is actually fairly simple: tumbling is hard and tumbling is dangerous. The best way USASF or AACCA or anyone else can combat this is with proper safety instruction. At a time, all of us have probably coached a cheerleading squad or spotted tumbling. I know for a fact the AACCA safety tests that are required at camps for coaches are a joke. It's open book and the test is orally discussed and answered as a class which results in no one really learning anything. USASF and AACCA should offer rigorous safety courses that require a mandatory passing grade by gym owners as well as all of their staff in order for said gym to compete at any competition under USASF. I don't mean some hour long test. I'm talking a safety course. Perhaps, a week long class that lasts a few hours a day that covers everything from stunting safely to practicing proper progression when teaching tumbling. Would this course suck? Absolutely. But it will keep our cheerleaders as safe as possible without watering down what skills are allowed. As long as USASF and/or AACCA does all they can to ensure the safety of all cheerleaders, they are doing their job. At some point responsibility needs to fall on the shoulders of the coaches, or even the cheerleaders who may be practicing skills that are too hard on their own. A big problem is just about anyone can coach tumbling as long as they have "experience." This means everyone is teaching differently and everyone is progressing differently. If USASF can force harsh safety classes, certifications, and qualifications for all gyms and their staff that wish to have teams participate at competitions USASF is hosting, that would be a decent amount of damage control and ensure that USASF has used everything at their disposal to keep cheerleaders safe. And at that point, it comes down to how the coaches and cheerleaders handle themselves at practice--a variable that USASF cannot control, and, the place where most of these accidents are happening.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

-more focus on progression and technique of the skill versus rushing the progression to keep up with the Jonses

- brings it more in line with the majority of the athletes then the exceptions

- if you have more athletes that are more closely in line with skill set replacements will be much easier in case of injury. Maybe there wouldn't be a rush to get Injured athletes back on the floor.

- preventative measure of injuries in other aspects of the scoresheet. Pulling back on certain skills will help strengthen the joints and ligaments to help balance out the increased demand of skills needed in other aspects of the scoresheet

 

[shadow]

A proper deduction system for tumbling would be far more effective. If you have a full but it land 3/4 around-1 bent knees-1 very low to the ground-1 eventually it won't be worth it to put it in. Gymnasts have beautiful form because it is too costly not to have it. You can not win without perfect form. Great form is not rewarded in cheerleading.
I also feel by bringing down the level of skill required it will not eliminate injury. It will put the carrot for "going big" even closer. I personally think it will encourage more injuries. It will pull teams out of restricted who have no business in senior 5.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

Can boys have different tumbling rules then girls? Please don't shoot me for asking this. Boys are typically much more stronger and powerful.

 

[MissBee]

Here's my take based on 13 years of competitive gymnastics, 18 years of gymnastics coaching and judging, cheering at the HS, college and UCA staff levels..I've also been coaching and judging cheer for 15 years. I'm certified by USAG, USASF and NFHS/AACCA.

I agree 100% with limiting the tumbling in cheerleading skills, for the time being. I believe that there are too many uneducated coaches out there "teaching" skills like fulls, doubles and whips. I believe that pulling back some skills and placing a focus on perfection before progression will create a safer environment for our athletes. In addition, there needs to be a detailed tumbling coaching certification, which includes a hands on component. When getting my USAG certification I learned all sorts of important things, like that 3 year olds shouldn't be jumping off of anything higher than 18", because it's bad for their developing knees. THOSE types of things would be important for cheer coaches to know as well. Physiology is important. The USASF certification process needs to be more detailed.
Notice that I said limiting the tumbling for the time being. Now, if they put the perfection before progression in place, and a more comprehensive certification course, in a few years they can start adding skills back in-as the athletes and coaches will be better prepared to learn/teach those skills.
Cheerleading needs to stop giving credit for layout that are not in a fully laid out position (180 degrees). If you are bent at the hips it's a pike, plain and simple. If you only rotate 3/4 of the way around, it doesn't count as a full. If you look like a frog during your BHS, it's not a BHS (especially if you look like a frog splatting on your head).

This needs to be an over haul on 3 fronts:
1. Limiting skills until athletes have achieved a level of mastery on the previous skills in the progression (for every single skill).
2. Coaching education: a program that includes a "textbook" and a hands on portion...spotting techniques are taught, drills for skill progression taught...also some type of mandatory "continuing education hours" required every 2 years to keep your certification valid (proof of course taken through USASF or USAG, or spotting technique class taken at a coaches inference etc).
3. Judging: Not giving credit for skills that are not executed with 100% proficiency.

 

[viralscorp]

I think it would be very difficult to properly implement a more seevere deduction system for poor execution. If you consider that smaller competitions have 3 judges, larger ones have 5... with 1 or 2 deduction/safety judges, it becomes really difficult to spot every single execution error. It's infinitely easier to spot a bust or touchdown.

In gymnastics there are 3-6 judges for one single athlete. The athlete tells the organization what they're going to perform on each event. I don't think the comparison between these two sports is quite as simple as it's being made out to be.

 

[King]

It would be worth while to add in the cost and practicality to implement all solutions that you mention.

 

[JusTellingItHowItIs]

You're being part of the problem, not the solution. Keep non-constructive comments out of this thread.

-Kingston

 

[p.o.k.]

I have a real problem with striving for mediocrity. I see it so much not just in cheer but in schools etc. If the reason for this is to level the playing field between gyms than this is just a terrible message to be sending the athletes who will think this will happen in real life. It does not. This is why there is a restricted division to begin with. I really wish we could see documented results and how the studies were completed and how an injury was directly related to a skill. The only time my daughter was injured at level 5 was a BHS nothing fancy a freak accident.

 

[Cheetahmom]

Don't limit the tumbling for the minority of bad coaching. You punish everyone for the poor form of a few. This is a sport which should encourage creativity and limiting skills is completely the wrong message. I'm personally get bored watching levels 1-4 because only so much you can do. These athletes push themselves to get to level 5 so that it can be more creative. Tumbling is a huge part of what makes this sport as unique as it is. Let coaches and cheerleaders take responsibility for the skills they throw risking a deduction for poor execution or throwing what their skills truly are. I see plenty of poor form in every level doing every skill so to arbitrarily chose a few to ban seems very unfounded. Let's encourage the growth of boys in the sport and the amazing girls but let them be deducted when they need to be.


---
I am here: Google Maps

 

[JusTellingItHowItIs]

You're being part of the problem, not the solution. Keep non-constructive comments out of this thread.

-Kingston

gotcha np

 

[xo sarah]

I don't believe that the tumbling skills should be removed due to the fact that that's why the restricted division was created in the first place. If the things they listed were to be removed, I believe they should also remove the restricted division, mainly due to the fact that they would only be separated by a few differences. I mean, since the USASF would be more so "leveling the playing field" for unrestricted teams, more teams would likely enter a Worlds division instead.

And I understand that while a coach may not know they're "bad" at coaching, they probably know full well that the under rotated, bent leg landed full or double should not be competed until it's fixed/taught properly either. I still feel like some of this situation ends up on the shoulders of coaches because they are the ones that push to be a "true level 5" team and might make that one athlete with the janky double throw it because they need the difficulty in tumbling.