Winning Because Of Skill Or Name??

[AFierceGymBoi]

I love watching level 5 teams. And seeing big named teams grow and compete. But do you think smaller gyms and teams who are level 4,3,2,1 only get cheated out of winning because of those big names. For example, big gyms like Gymtyme, Spirit of Texas, CEA, World Cup, Maryland Twisters and Cheer Athletics all have many teams in various levels. But everyone knows them for the level 5 teams. But the gyms who are smaller and don't have that many athletes, such as these seem to loose in the lower levels. Do these teams win because of their name? or do they win because their routine was better. I personally have been to a few competitions and seen smaller gyms or brand new gyms compete with a very good routine. Clean motions and transitions, all while maximizing their skills and tumbling possibilities. And loose by alot. Did they loose because the routine wasn't good, or because the team they were up against is a big gym that has been around for more than 10 years? I have no doubt that every child and athlete works hard but does the name matter?

**please keep the dialog clean**

 

[CoachMandiCF]

I think it depends. I've seen it both ways. In our area there is a gym called Hot Topic. They are AMAZING. Very small gym. I don't think they have anything over a level 3 but they DOMINATE competitions. They beat teams like Twisters, Crimson Heat, Fame, etc.

But then you go to bigger national comps and you scratch your head sometimes wondering how bigger programs win.

 

[Rhiley]

I go to a smaller gym (but probably the biggest gym in the area) and we compete and have competed against teams like Cheer Athletics, Top Gun, California, and other big teams, and yes we probably are not up to their par but I do believe that we won't ever win because we aren't as widely publicized...

We have continually gotten better over the years and have moved up... At NCA, we were in the Small Coed division of 33 teams, and managed to get 13th... But 1st through 12th were teams like Top Gun, Rockstar, Cali... So did we lose because we didn't have a team were everybody can throw a double? Or because we went up against "THE" Top Gun?

I mean, We have a high difficulty level, and when we compete regionally, we (usually) win by a landslide... Even at smaller Texas competitions (ASC or ACA), we get within hundredths of points with some of those teams, yet at NCA we are behind by them 4 points? I don't know what to say, but honestly It does seem that some 'biased' judging is taking place... That they don't even consider us as first place material, yet they expect Cali or ACE to win...

 

[a nICE mom]

The top 14 teams in that division were all over 90. It was extremely tough competition. To be fair to yourselves, you or a coach should analyze where you may have been outscored. If you are getting out tumbled, there may not be a lot you can do to add doubles, but you could add more combo passes, or if you can't, try adding some more runs of synchronized tumbling. Also, IMO, most teams aren't very synchronized in their jump sequences, and that alone can knock your score down below other gyms when its as close as it was at NCA (take a look at still pictures of the jumps - how many people are not on the same timing as the rest). Or look to up your stunting scores with more creative loads or dismounts. Or add a body position or some flair as the flyers hit their positions - CEA is real good at doing this. Also take a look at stunting technique - are any bases all bent up underneath a stunt so it looks like they're holding up the world? That's a sure sign something isn't right. Attention to the details can do a lot for your scores, and these big name gyms that have been around KNOW this and harp on it when they practice.

 

[NJ Coach]

I've had teams compete against "names". I've won more than I've lost. Honestly, it's all about maxing out the scoresheet. If you aren't maxing out all areas, and hitting your routine, it won't matter who you compete against.

 

[alexamarysouza]

I just want to say I know this topic firsthand.
I cheered for CEA for my whole life. I wasn't level 5 there because of an injury. I was levels 3 and below for 7 years. We didn't always win. When we won, it was because, as NJ Coach said, we maxed out everything and also executed it. But, we lost as much as we won in my last few years.
NOW, I cheer for a small gym called Carolina Spirit Athletics. Im not trying to boast when I say this, but we are pretty good. We've beat NUMEROUS big name gyms like Allstar Panthers, Stingrays, CEA, Charlotte Allstars, Greensboro Allstars, ACX, just to name a few. (all respect to these gyms, you're all amazing!!) We win because we max out! Simply put. and we over-exaggerate EEEEVERYTHING. Word has it that a Twist n Shout coach saw one of our coaches (who was judging) at NCA and asked where our Sr 4 was, and why we didnt bring them because they expected us to go. I guess people know who we are!
In other words- big name gyms have no advantage over small gyms. If you lose to a big name gym, its just because they were better! My gym is definitely the proof of this. SMALL GYMS- hold your head up and keep going! You can be just as good as them!
thats all.

 

[CAjessica45]

i too go to a small gym compared to the well know gyms. we are one of the larger gyms in the area and we do well at local competitions. but at the larger ones i feel that we cant do as well because the larger programs can spend more money on music and choreography which does help at competitions. but i have also seen small gyms win at national competitions. our senior 3 team won cheersport nationals a few years back and they were against the well know gyms level 3 teams. so i think it could go either way, being against the name or the skill team, but the only sure way to make sure you compete against skill is to make sure to max it all out on the scoresheets and be the better team

 

[Marc0pol0]

i honestly thinks its alil of both more cause of the name!!! i truly think smaller gyms ten to have better stunts with ok tumbling. i also think smaller gyms are getting there name out more now like marlins, orlando allstars, pittsburgh superstars, GBE and so forth. trust me smaller gyms would be getting up there sooner or later!!! look at allstars revolution i didnt know who the hell they were intill NCA they got 1st day one and 2nd day to witch is amazing!! soo there is hope for everyone <3

 

[Electrix10]

I truly believe its all about the score sheet. I came from a small gym and am now at a large gym. The small gym didn't even look at the score sheets. They just wanted to build a nice looking routine. It is so much more than that. I see small teams go our there with less stunt groups than can achieve a max score and tumble that doesn't meet the criteria for the event. If the sheet says 16 specialty passes or 7 stunt groups -- you have to get there to be competitive. I can't see how coaches allow this in justice. I must say that sometimes the team just doesn't have the skill set to max out the sheet. If thats the case consider whether or not you are reaching for the stars when you only have enough gas for the moon. (By the way gas is expensive.)

 

[CheerIsLife90]

I honestly think its both with the name of the gym being slightly an advantage.

 

[magmarmic]

sad but true

 

[iamfearless]

i think its both but the truth is they have the noticeable names because they got them from winning and preforming well.

 

[Deleted member 11199]

Yes I would definitely agree that teams sometimes win because of their name at certain comps. (IMO) just from personal experience, I know that a team was 10 (yes 10) ahead of my team, when we only had a couple minor errors..... I do believe that some judges are biased

 

[coldasICE]

Overall, I would say any gym can be beat (big or small) if their routine doesn't max out the scoresheet. I think the reason bigger gyms win would be because they are experienced and may have been around longer than small gyms. More experience usually means more knowledge on how competitions score routines and how to max out that particular competitions scoresheet.

 

[PghxCheer2]

If you look at many of the bigger gyms, their most recognizable athletes are those that have come up through their system. They didn't just waltz into the gym 2 years ago and get handed a center flyer/last pass/etc spot on the gym's most recognizable team. In fact, I would venture to say that MOST of the level 5 female athletes on world champion teams have cheered at those gyms for 5-10+ years. It's a reflection of those larger gyms' farming systems (aka: their lower level teams). There is no such thing as a gym that has strong level 5 teams but only sub-par lower level teams. If a gym only pays attention to their top level teams, they won't have anybody to feed that team(s) in 2-3 years.

Have there been teams that won a tight race because they wear a certain uniform? I'm sure of it. But just the opposite can happen, also. A big gym can lose because their known teams are SO GOOD that a judge/spectator can look at their unknown teams and be extremely underwhelmed. For example, if I went to a competition and Rays Junior 3 team jumped like everyone else in the division (assuming those teams jump averagely), I would be disappointed. It's something they are known for and excel at so much on their upper level teams that I would expect the same attention to detail with lower levels. Every other team could jump just like the Rays J3 team and I wouldn't think twice about their jumps not being executed well enough. (P.S. I used that example because it's not the case. I think Rays lower level teams have always been a large gym that holds their own weight in any level they compete.) It happens on both ends of the spectrum, and personally, there have been very few times when I was truly just dumbfounded about how the judges came up with the winner. Most of the time judges pick a fair winner.